Still, Microsoft has made it so that there is no possible way to sync with OSX and it's bugging me. At least make it so we can drag and drop! They can't afford to be losing customers just because of this restriction, I mean, do they WANT their product to sell?
The Zune brand is pretty much only known by geeks, or at least bought by them, and more people in the geek community have Macs than in the "other" community...
I'm not trying to say that geeks only have Macs, just sayin'... you get what I mean..
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Why no Mac support?!
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I think for some reason they just have a pride issue with it. I am hoping that they will finally break the mold when the Zune HD is released in September. That would be an ideal situation for them, new player with fantastic capabilities and Mac support. They could actually gain a little bit more market share that way I think.
I think the other issue is the Zune software. how do you port that over to the Mac and still give it that Zune look? I bet they are struggling with that at least a little bit. I wish they would use the native APIs for Mac AND Windows though. I, for one, am sick of proprietary window borders and file menus. Making a program look native should be part of a developer's job.
I think the other issue is the Zune software. how do you port that over to the Mac and still give it that Zune look? I bet they are struggling with that at least a little bit. I wish they would use the native APIs for Mac AND Windows though. I, for one, am sick of proprietary window borders and file menus. Making a program look native should be part of a developer's job.
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I'm not sure this assertion is true. Most Mac users I know are more influenced by media and not specs, and they generally are not interested in truly exploiting their gadgets to the fullest potential. For instance, rarely do I see a Mac which has anything but the default desktop wallpaper. Geeks, as far as I'm concerned, are the consumers who truly want to use (and abuse) technology and have full control over their experience. That's not something you'll get from Apple. It may be true that a large percentage of "geeks" have macs, but the general consumer movement is rapidly moving toward Apple products while geeks still demand the ability to customize and control.
But back to the topic at hand, I don't think that Microsoft is as concerned with supporting a small fraction of the computer market (almost all of which is already taken by the iPod) when they have the problems of international support, music and video licensing, and of course developing and marketing products to attend to. Microsoft is spread thin with all of the myriad of services it provides, so I would think they prioritize.
But back to the topic at hand, I don't think that Microsoft is as concerned with supporting a small fraction of the computer market (almost all of which is already taken by the iPod) when they have the problems of international support, music and video licensing, and of course developing and marketing products to attend to. Microsoft is spread thin with all of the myriad of services it provides, so I would think they prioritize.
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I think Mac OSX support might come over the years, but for now it just isn't a priority for Microsoft. The fact that the Zune OS got his (visible) clock only on the third version shows us the Zune Team whatever it finds most important first. From the moment they've brought Zune to it to its full potential they'll start thinking of things like Mac support.
It's logical that when Windows controls the biggest part, around 90 percent, of the market, Microsoft first wants to be sure that Zune is a success before it starts porting their software to Mac.
It's logical that when Windows controls the biggest part, around 90 percent, of the market, Microsoft first wants to be sure that Zune is a success before it starts porting their software to Mac.
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While what you're saying is true, that Mac users can run Windows via Bootcamp, I don't want to have my music collection twice on the same hard drive. I'd have to do this because Windows can't read the other partition (OS X)
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I dont know if anyone has already said this before(i dont think i am going to read 3 pages worth of threads) but the reason that Microsoft does not have mac support for mac is because of lack of DRM support. All version of Windows from XP and above have a very tight layer of DRM management that Zune Pass can tap into to make sure that their content is not being pirated. Mac does not have that kind of DRM management that is available for Microsoft to tap into and they dont want to release a player that does not work with on another platform and i agree with decision to go along with Windows only (though i am a mac user), but on the other hand it would really open up a whole new market to them.
Frankly I have become a bit tired of iPods(i am running on my 3rd one, currently iPod Touch), for they have become a bit too generic. Every tom dick and harry has one and i think this is a growing feeling in the geek community that there is some competition needed in the mp3 player business. Sandisk/Cowon/Creative i would hardly call competition for their players simple do not lack the finesse that a Zune or iPod have atleast not on the software based sync side.
Frankly I have become a bit tired of iPods(i am running on my 3rd one, currently iPod Touch), for they have become a bit too generic. Every tom dick and harry has one and i think this is a growing feeling in the geek community that there is some competition needed in the mp3 player business. Sandisk/Cowon/Creative i would hardly call competition for their players simple do not lack the finesse that a Zune or iPod have atleast not on the software based sync side.
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The DRM required by the Zune would appear to be tied to Windows. DRM is required because of contractural obligations to the music companies to allow their content to be offered via subscription, and provide a means to revoke the rights if necessary. I've had one album "pulled" for some reason, not sure why.
As for drag-and-drop, I find it fine for smaller capacity players, like 1 or 2 GB, but with about 70GB (and more every day) of content, I find the Zune software is the way to go. It allows access to new music, which is automatically sync'ed with the device without a second thought. CDs are ripped and sync'ed in one operation as well.
Yes, they could have done things different, but then it wouldn't be as good.
As for drag-and-drop, I find it fine for smaller capacity players, like 1 or 2 GB, but with about 70GB (and more every day) of content, I find the Zune software is the way to go. It allows access to new music, which is automatically sync'ed with the device without a second thought. CDs are ripped and sync'ed in one operation as well.
Yes, they could have done things different, but then it wouldn't be as good.
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I can tell you right now, I think the Zune (Even the current Zune) is FAR better than any iPod. Wireless Syncing, Social Network/Song Sharing, SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE (Cough APPLE). Not to mention the Zune Desktop software blows iTunes out of the water... The only reason I no longer have one is because I run a Mac.
If Microsoft released a Mac software with similar features (Wifi Sync, and Subscription) I would buy a Zune tomorrow.
If Microsoft released a Mac software with similar features (Wifi Sync, and Subscription) I would buy a Zune tomorrow.
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I wish you could use it on a MAC too! If there was a way to use it on a MAC, I'd def go out and buy a macbook pro =)
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I don't think they plan on porting over the zune. I'd make a safe assumption that most mac owners would rather own an iPod or iPhone. Of course there are exceptions to that rule, I'm sure there a few mac people who would want a zune. That combined with the fact that the mac has a small marketshare (although it is growing), it wouldn't be a good move for them to develop for the mac. Not worth the development time and resources.
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i thought the target audience for Zunes were people who wanted something on par with an iPod but didn't want to support Apple (that's me).
chinster is right... the people who would go out of their way to actively switch to an Apple are the same people who would not bother deviating from the iPod / iPhone / iWhatever. Apple had to market to PCs to crack the market there because there are so many PC users. Microsoft doesn't really need to pander to the Mac crowd because the number of people who would primarily use an Apple but would rather eschew the iPod for a Zune can be counted on 0 fingers.
chinster is right... the people who would go out of their way to actively switch to an Apple are the same people who would not bother deviating from the iPod / iPhone / iWhatever. Apple had to market to PCs to crack the market there because there are so many PC users. Microsoft doesn't really need to pander to the Mac crowd because the number of people who would primarily use an Apple but would rather eschew the iPod for a Zune can be counted on 0 fingers.
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Seriously, I want mac support for the zune.
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I think the OSX support is called boot camp...
=p
=p
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Buy a Mac and put Windows on it?
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They probably won't ever add support, it would give Apple another box to check off on OSX's list of features. Apple had to support Windows simply because it has larger market share and quite frankly, Apple aren't in a strong enough position to warrant that support yet
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To those saying MS has 90% of the market share: While it may be true for the OS but it certainly isn't for MP3 players, and that's what we're talking about here. To break Apple's hold on the portable music sector, MS needs to make their players available for use on OS X. They HAVE to, no ifs ands or buts about it.
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not being a mac guy, it seems to me that direct support to osx works against where ms is going right now.
being a kinda geeky guy, if i had a mac and wasn't running bootcamp to do windows only stuff, i would be falling down on my geekly duty.
and considering what i hear about itunes on windows from a few of my buddies, i think ms will have to do some super development work so mac users won't hate them. getting it right needs to be more important that getting it out.
being a kinda geeky guy, if i had a mac and wasn't running bootcamp to do windows only stuff, i would be falling down on my geekly duty.
and considering what i hear about itunes on windows from a few of my buddies, i think ms will have to do some super development work so mac users won't hate them. getting it right needs to be more important that getting it out.
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Zune marketplace won't work on mac since the subscription model is based on DRM'ed music files and microsoft hasn't/won't support that on the mac.
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I don't think MS finds it to be a viable option yet. they don't want to spend time and money developing for a platform that they dont think will have that many zuners on it. I think they want to focus on perfecting the zune from the PC side and gaining more market share before moving to OSX.
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Seems XNJB works for Zune. From what I saw when i (briefly) skimmed through comments, there were issues in the past (to do with firmware updates and the like) but it looks like it works atm for transferring data.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
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Why no Mac support? That's cuz Macs suck!!!
No no no seriously tho. What about iTunes and ipods? Why are "they" so incompatible?!
So in conclusion... Dont blame the Microsoft product, blame the Mac
No no no seriously tho. What about iTunes and ipods? Why are "they" so incompatible?!
So in conclusion... Dont blame the Microsoft product, blame the Mac
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This is a huge Mistake for Microsoft and Zune will not increase market share until they support Macs. Forget about Mac OS X Market share and think about its mind share. Anyone that goes to a Mall knows about Macs and a lot have thought about getting one. I imagine that a lot of Zunes have not sold after the potential buyer found out about the "Windows only" restriction. Maybe you use Windows now (I do), but do you want to tie a music player to your OS decision?
All the reasons for Microsoft not to support Macs smack of incompetence. They can't do software? They can't do DRM on the Mac? They are afraid to compete? Come on! Microsoft has the money and the talent to do anything if they really want it. So, my conclusion is they don't want to do it, and the reason they don't want to do it is that they are stuck in a protect Windows mentality. But nothing is threatening Windows! It's just corporate paranoia and it's hurting Microsoft. Other projects (including search, Xbox, etc) are affected by this mind set, but none more than the Zune. Come on Microsoft, grow a pair... Compete and win.
All the reasons for Microsoft not to support Macs smack of incompetence. They can't do software? They can't do DRM on the Mac? They are afraid to compete? Come on! Microsoft has the money and the talent to do anything if they really want it. So, my conclusion is they don't want to do it, and the reason they don't want to do it is that they are stuck in a protect Windows mentality. But nothing is threatening Windows! It's just corporate paranoia and it's hurting Microsoft. Other projects (including search, Xbox, etc) are affected by this mind set, but none more than the Zune. Come on Microsoft, grow a pair... Compete and win.
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I'm betting they'll have it eventually, as soon as they feel like it's holding back their sales by any significant margin. Bottom line is, they've got their hands full trying to make the Zune successful and if you only have time to support one platform, Windows is the correct choice. Contrary to popular belief, Microsoft doesn't have unlimited money to throw into the development of this thing, and they have to use their budget wisely to avoid the Zune line failing before it can get some momentum in the marketplace. Once they attain that, they can work on expanding their platform support.
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But... why? I don't know any self respecting Mac owners (well, outside of this thread ;) that want a Zune. Mac guys I know have iPhones and don't need an MP3 player.
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There is Mac support : it comes in the form of Parallels or Boot Camp. Buy a copy of Windows, and install the Zune software on that. Done.
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I like the Zune's design. But I won't get one until there is a native ums setting in the players.
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I'm not sure what makes you think more geeks run Mac instead of Windows. You can't even legitimately build your own Mac, and even if you pirate the OS, Mac is compatible with VERY little hardware out there. If you want to build your own power house desktop, without spending $10,000, you won't be doing it with OS X in mind.
Geeks build PCs. Poor geeks buy netbooks. (AA1, here) Geeks buy Windows Mobile and Android phones and reinstall each individual service on the phone with 3rd party software that best suits their needs. Geeks backup their data, format their OS drive, and reinstall Windows on a regular basis to keep the hard drive clear of fragmentation and useless junk while keeping everything running at top speeds. We also do that with our Windows Mobile phones on a weekly / monthly basis. Not becuase we have to, but because we want to.
IMO, geeks would have to make too many compromises to convert to Mac. OS X is just that little project they install on their netbooks, because it's cool.
With regards to why Zune is not Mac compatible, I assume MS knows most Mac owners run Windows on Parallels or Boot Camp. The number of Mac owners running OS X exclusively that want a Microsoft made Zune is probably incredibly small.
Geeks build PCs. Poor geeks buy netbooks. (AA1, here) Geeks buy Windows Mobile and Android phones and reinstall each individual service on the phone with 3rd party software that best suits their needs. Geeks backup their data, format their OS drive, and reinstall Windows on a regular basis to keep the hard drive clear of fragmentation and useless junk while keeping everything running at top speeds. We also do that with our Windows Mobile phones on a weekly / monthly basis. Not becuase we have to, but because we want to.
IMO, geeks would have to make too many compromises to convert to Mac. OS X is just that little project they install on their netbooks, because it's cool.
With regards to why Zune is not Mac compatible, I assume MS knows most Mac owners run Windows on Parallels or Boot Camp. The number of Mac owners running OS X exclusively that want a Microsoft made Zune is probably incredibly small.
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Microsoft cant spend the time or money supporting mac??? Thats a joke. Microsoft's Zune brand has minuscule market share compared to the ipod, they need to make their product available to as many people as possible. Ignoring OSX and Linux is foolish. Attacking a mountain from only one side is a task left for the stubborn and blind. I guarantee there are mac users(including myself) who would by a zune if it was supported in OSX. Considering how few Zunes are sold it really couldn't hurt. It is not a huge undertaking to make the Zune MSC or create a very basic media transferring program that works with OSX. They definitely have the time/manpower and they certainly have the money.
Microsoft cant afford to make the Zune OSX compatible??? Hah! What Microsft cant afford is to ignore potential adopters, even if they are a smaller demographic.
Microsoft cant afford to make the Zune OSX compatible??? Hah! What Microsft cant afford is to ignore potential adopters, even if they are a smaller demographic.
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I hope when they release the Zune HD this problem will be fixed, but for now I'm thankful that I own both a Windows and Mac computer.
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Yeah seriously..... I've been wanting mac support for ages. I hope they do this when they release the Zune HD. I'd like to see that happen.
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I think I would buy a Zune if it had Mac support...... maybe.
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I have a Zune.. and I don't think they need to worry about MAC support. They have some things to fix on the Windows end. And lets face it, this is a Microsoft product.. it benifits them to sell within their own ecosystem just like MAC does. Would it maybe give Zunes more customers, eh maybe like 10 but are you really going to buy a Zune HD when your Mac Book comes with an Ipod Touch for Free?
MAC should be happy MS supports it. I don't think the explosion would have happened if MS did not port Office to the MAC. In college you can't even get some classes without having Excel or PowerPoint.. they typically do not support the MAC versions..
MAC should be happy MS supports it. I don't think the explosion would have happened if MS did not port Office to the MAC. In college you can't even get some classes without having Excel or PowerPoint.. they typically do not support the MAC versions..
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I love Microsoft but this is a slap in the face only to the customers. Apply probably loves this because it will make some people on the fence who might have bought a Zune jump to Apple who supports Windows and Mac (and Linux, etc.). This is a stubborn business decision they made, and sad to see they did it!
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Just run Parallels, etc then.
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I think he was just saying that most non-geeks are more comfortable with Windows because it's more widely used. Macs are still somewhat a niche market, though they are gaining.
And yes, it does seem like most of my non-geek friends are opposed to buying a Mac because it's "hard to use." I think it's most likely because they're used to Windows, regardless of the usability of each OS.
And yes, it does seem like most of my non-geek friends are opposed to buying a Mac because it's "hard to use." I think it's most likely because they're used to Windows, regardless of the usability of each OS.
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I'm surprised at how many people want Mac support. At first I didn't think it was worth the trouble, but seeing how many Mac users here would consider a Zune if it supported Macs, now I'm not so sure. They could at least add drag and drop support for all the Mac and Linux users.
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Come on, only enough time to support one platform. That is just not true and if it is then Microsoft is just being stupid and narrow minded. If they want a shot at really making the Zune a popular product they are just going to have to support the Mac, now more than ever.
And before someone cries Fanboy, I was a diehard Windows user since Windows 3.0 and only in the past 2 years have I become an Apple convert.
TimT
And before someone cries Fanboy, I was a diehard Windows user since Windows 3.0 and only in the past 2 years have I become an Apple convert.
TimT
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I saw a discussion in the DoubleTwist forums that the DoubleTwist team is currently working on a way adding Zune support.
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Sun Virtualbox. Problem solved.
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I don't even have such high hopes for explicit OSX support. I got a Macbook last year and was bummed to find out that everything worked with it except my Zune 80, and I haven't been able to run it successfully through Parallels either (although I've seen people who have apparently succeeded). It's frustrating to say the least. At least make it a little less fussy so it's easier to somehow figure out a way to use it without a PC!
I also have an ipod touch but it's just not quite the same. I really do like the Zune a lot.
I also have an ipod touch but it's just not quite the same. I really do like the Zune a lot.
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I totally would buy a Zune if it had Mac support. Especially with the Zune HD coming out. Come on Microsoft.
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Ah smurf. man you just nailed it. anyways the number of mac users are very low as compared to windows. i totally agree with him..
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Could it be possibly that Microsoft wants to make sure that they get everything in the Zune working perfectly before they open it up to other systems? Remember the iPod only worked with Macs in the first generation of the product. Once all of the bugs were worked out, Apple then opened it up to PCs with the HP iPod.
Microsoft should be more interested in selling the Zune outside of the US, though Apple has made a dent (10%) in PC sales here, they are very small on the world stage (4%).
Microsoft should be more interested in selling the Zune outside of the US, though Apple has made a dent (10%) in PC sales here, they are very small on the world stage (4%).
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A lot of you guys are missing the point. Microsoft has purposely made it so that you cannot, in ANY way, sync with a Mac. Even if they didn't make the Zune software for the Mac (or any other OS for that matter), they still could have made it so we can drag and drop.
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IT'S 'YOU WANT IT?' = 'GET A PC'
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I really think that the zune software is much better than iTunes. However, I am a mac person and I will be switching to the zune software (not so much the hardware) to manage my music.
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"At least make it so we can drag and drop!"
no can do, sorry. they'd loose control over their users, that's why Apple, MS and all the other DRM/Control freaks use their proprietary systems in the first place. and that's why i don't buy it. alternatives sporting far superior sound and audio quality are plenty.
and don't think for a minute, they wouldn't pull off such a nasty stunt as Amazon did last week if it pleases them.
no can do, sorry. they'd loose control over their users, that's why Apple, MS and all the other DRM/Control freaks use their proprietary systems in the first place. and that's why i don't buy it. alternatives sporting far superior sound and audio quality are plenty.
and don't think for a minute, they wouldn't pull off such a nasty stunt as Amazon did last week if it pleases them.
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Did it ever occur to anyone that it isn't Microsoft who is holding up mac support but Apple? Apple has always been the proprietary "can't use anything unless it's Apple branded" company -- maybe they're stopping Microsoft from letting developers create Zune software for OS X.
This seems to be very likely to me. Why would Apple allow support on their platform for the ONLY pmp out there that is a formidable opponent to their iPod (spec-wise)? My guess is that Microsoft is just as eager as the rest of us for mac support.
I'm a pc user myself (and a customized zune 80 owner) but I would LOVE to see mac compatible zune software. It's the only way for Zune to have a chance in making a dent in the iPod marketshare. Yet for some reason it just seems unlikely. We can only hope.
This seems to be very likely to me. Why would Apple allow support on their platform for the ONLY pmp out there that is a formidable opponent to their iPod (spec-wise)? My guess is that Microsoft is just as eager as the rest of us for mac support.
I'm a pc user myself (and a customized zune 80 owner) but I would LOVE to see mac compatible zune software. It's the only way for Zune to have a chance in making a dent in the iPod marketshare. Yet for some reason it just seems unlikely. We can only hope.
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"They sort of already do."
there you are. i suppose, Amazon only made waves because of all books they chose George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four to demonstrate their 'Big Brother' powers :)
well, as long folks are willing to spend big bucks for the privilege to have their gadgets 'killswitched', manufacturers will continue selling them.
there you are. i suppose, Amazon only made waves because of all books they chose George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four to demonstrate their 'Big Brother' powers :)
well, as long folks are willing to spend big bucks for the privilege to have their gadgets 'killswitched', manufacturers will continue selling them.
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maybe Microsoft in their infinite decency decided not to screw up other operating systems :D
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