Well, there are a few (by Philips, for example); but it looks like no company is interested in providing a real alternative to iPod touch, i.e. a PMP that doubles as a modern PDA. Zune hardware is killed off, and just a few companies are releasing Android-based PMPs. I don't understand this. I guess companies are thinking that there is no need to release such hardware since smart phones are selling like hotcakes. But I think there are a lot of people who would prefer having an advanced PMP over a cell phone (e.g. students).
I was really expecting to see a WP7-based Zune which could help Microsoft promote its OS just like Apple did. I also would like to see a WebOS-based PMP, but it looks like that's unlikely to happen. Only Samsung seems to be seriously working on such devices (Galaxy Player 4 and 5).
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Why isn't there any iPod touch competitors?
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amandoktor's pick
Damn good question but a tough one I’m sure, because who can truly understand the mind(s) of companies who are worried about their bottom lines and competing with Apple and their iPod lines. But what the hell and lets try anyways.
My 1st guess is cost and profit. Can they sell enough of the device to make a penny off them? Not a lot of companies are going to invest in something like a PMP or PDA when they don’t sell much any more especially with the current mobile phones that are out there. And in the US most phones are subsidized by the carriers where the device is free or in some cases less than a $100. What sort of profit margin does that leave them?
Is there really a market for them when even the more basic non-smart phone models now have calendars and e-mail? Also they would be competing against stuff like the iPod touch which has such a market presence would it be worth it for them financially to make something to complete?
Sure you have Microsoft out there who could sell the Zune at a loss to get you to subscribe to their Zune service or use their Zune store but now that most music is DRM free you are not locked into only buying in their store so that doesn’t guarantee you will but from them anymore or use their service. But it seems that they are now more focused getting back to their Windows Phones then the Zune line but you never know with MS they may come out with else to replace the Zune.
Then you got Google out there offering up the Android lines for the different hardware manufacturers to create phones and tablets. Ok maybe they have not had the best music players so far but you can’t knock them with their integration into Gmail and all the data stored there like your calendar and contacts. Heck even iTunes lets you sync your contacts to Gmail now. Why should a company develop software for PDA/PMP when they use Google’s free one?
I would love to see an updated Zune and to be honest who knows what HP will do with the WebOS. Of any of them out there I can see HP milking the OS the most to get the most money out of it. If the phones don’t take off I can see them rolling tables and even PDA/PMPS. And Sony is still out there and you never know what strange little device they will roll out next.
My 1st guess is cost and profit. Can they sell enough of the device to make a penny off them? Not a lot of companies are going to invest in something like a PMP or PDA when they don’t sell much any more especially with the current mobile phones that are out there. And in the US most phones are subsidized by the carriers where the device is free or in some cases less than a $100. What sort of profit margin does that leave them?
Is there really a market for them when even the more basic non-smart phone models now have calendars and e-mail? Also they would be competing against stuff like the iPod touch which has such a market presence would it be worth it for them financially to make something to complete?
Sure you have Microsoft out there who could sell the Zune at a loss to get you to subscribe to their Zune service or use their Zune store but now that most music is DRM free you are not locked into only buying in their store so that doesn’t guarantee you will but from them anymore or use their service. But it seems that they are now more focused getting back to their Windows Phones then the Zune line but you never know with MS they may come out with else to replace the Zune.
Then you got Google out there offering up the Android lines for the different hardware manufacturers to create phones and tablets. Ok maybe they have not had the best music players so far but you can’t knock them with their integration into Gmail and all the data stored there like your calendar and contacts. Heck even iTunes lets you sync your contacts to Gmail now. Why should a company develop software for PDA/PMP when they use Google’s free one?
I would love to see an updated Zune and to be honest who knows what HP will do with the WebOS. Of any of them out there I can see HP milking the OS the most to get the most money out of it. If the phones don’t take off I can see them rolling tables and even PDA/PMPS. And Sony is still out there and you never know what strange little device they will roll out next.
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amandoktor's pick
From the official statements you could conclude that Zune releases were halted for only a year due to WP7... but if you listen to the rumour mill, Microsoft are about to announce a shift away from the Zune branding entirely. If this is the case then I don't think you should expect new Microsoft media players any time soon.
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amandoktor's pick
That is an excellent question.
Of course there are plenty of PMP vendors. Why aren't the PMP vendors delivering PDA functionality? The problem is with the apps, specifically with creating a SDK and an app ecosystem that is going to be competitive with iOS and the App Store. The only competitor in a position to do anything about this is Google, and Google has no interest in a platform that doesn't **require** Internet services.
Which sort of leads to the question of why there aren't more low cost Android devices with PMP functionality. I suspect that part of the problem is the lack of a strong Android music store. Why do a PMP without a music store? Now that Google has a cloud-based music service, perhaps we will see more Android devices that compete with the iPod touch. However, to truly be competitive, I think you have to acknowledge that the cloud is not always the answer; you have to support an on-device music library. And, as I've already said, Google only loves you when you are on the Internet.
I might be tempted to suggest that the portable game consoles could step it up, and be competitive by offering apps and better PMP functionality. But then I realize that we are talking about two of the most clueless companies on the planet. They still don't get it that Apple has completely rewritten the rules when it comes to portable gaming.
Now that I think about it, the answer may be Amazon. Say they fork Android, and start selling a PMP that works with their music service/store. That might have legs; and, with the Android app space already somewhat fractured, they could make a go of it on the app front as well - which I think they were rumored to be doing anyway?
Of course there are plenty of PMP vendors. Why aren't the PMP vendors delivering PDA functionality? The problem is with the apps, specifically with creating a SDK and an app ecosystem that is going to be competitive with iOS and the App Store. The only competitor in a position to do anything about this is Google, and Google has no interest in a platform that doesn't **require** Internet services.
Which sort of leads to the question of why there aren't more low cost Android devices with PMP functionality. I suspect that part of the problem is the lack of a strong Android music store. Why do a PMP without a music store? Now that Google has a cloud-based music service, perhaps we will see more Android devices that compete with the iPod touch. However, to truly be competitive, I think you have to acknowledge that the cloud is not always the answer; you have to support an on-device music library. And, as I've already said, Google only loves you when you are on the Internet.
I might be tempted to suggest that the portable game consoles could step it up, and be competitive by offering apps and better PMP functionality. But then I realize that we are talking about two of the most clueless companies on the planet. They still don't get it that Apple has completely rewritten the rules when it comes to portable gaming.
Now that I think about it, the answer may be Amazon. Say they fork Android, and start selling a PMP that works with their music service/store. That might have legs; and, with the Android app space already somewhat fractured, they could make a go of it on the app front as well - which I think they were rumored to be doing anyway?
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@MtnSloth
I don't think the lack of a music store is a good reason for a company to ignore PMPs. Like you mentioned, Amazon (and any other company) can integrate an existing music store with Android. Palm/HP is already doing that with webOS. Amazon mp3 store is loaded on webOS devices by default, and it's a good alternative to iTunes. Amazon's store is even better in terms of price, because you can download top songs for only 0.69$ while you need to pay almost two times in iTunes store. (Also, the highest you'll pay per song in Amazon is 0.99$, which is still less than what you have to pay for a song in iTunes store.) Can you see the potential of an Android/webOS device coupled with a music store like Amazon? If a company manages to provide a true, modern PMP with a price lower than that of iPod touch (e.g. 199$ vs 229$), and reminds users that they will pay less for music, I think they might have a chance in seriously competing Apple. I hope Samsung can do that with Galaxy Player. We really need more options.
I don't think the lack of a music store is a good reason for a company to ignore PMPs. Like you mentioned, Amazon (and any other company) can integrate an existing music store with Android. Palm/HP is already doing that with webOS. Amazon mp3 store is loaded on webOS devices by default, and it's a good alternative to iTunes. Amazon's store is even better in terms of price, because you can download top songs for only 0.69$ while you need to pay almost two times in iTunes store. (Also, the highest you'll pay per song in Amazon is 0.99$, which is still less than what you have to pay for a song in iTunes store.) Can you see the potential of an Android/webOS device coupled with a music store like Amazon? If a company manages to provide a true, modern PMP with a price lower than that of iPod touch (e.g. 199$ vs 229$), and reminds users that they will pay less for music, I think they might have a chance in seriously competing Apple. I hope Samsung can do that with Galaxy Player. We really need more options.
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My point was that Amazon is NOT just any other company. They have an established online music store . . . so a PMP might make sense as a tool to drive online music sales. They did the Kindle to guarantee that an Amazon online book store was relevant to consumers; and they have every reason to do a PMP to compliment their online music store and online music locker. However, in both cases they are/would be selling hardware to further the interests of their online stores. That is the reverse of the Apple model, and we really don't know how well it is working out for Amazon with the Kindle. So a dedicated music player might be a stretch or it might make perfect sense.
In contrast, HP and Samsung are in a far weaker position. They are not players in the PMP market . . . or at least not in a segment with fat profit margins AND **they** have no online music store or app store of their own worth speaking of. It does HP and Samsung little to no good to sell content for Amazon (or Google for that matter)!
HP and Samsung will struggle to beat the iPod touch because they can't sell the device at a loss (no way to make their money back in online content or app sales). They can't buy comparable components at a price to match Apple making it hard to undercut Apple and still make a reasonable profit. So how are they going to establish a house brand music and app store AND sell a less expensive PMP with a comparable screen to the touch? I suppose Samsung might be able to do so since they can supply much of the components themselves, but HP?
That said, as a consumer, we need better alternatives to Apple; I completely agree in that regard. However, Apple's competitors need to provide a complete product ecosystem (hardware, software and content) if they truly want to be players. Thus, I think the competition is going to have to come from someone like Amazon, and not from hardware companies like HP or Samsung . . . much as I might wish it were otherwise.
In contrast, HP and Samsung are in a far weaker position. They are not players in the PMP market . . . or at least not in a segment with fat profit margins AND **they** have no online music store or app store of their own worth speaking of. It does HP and Samsung little to no good to sell content for Amazon (or Google for that matter)!
HP and Samsung will struggle to beat the iPod touch because they can't sell the device at a loss (no way to make their money back in online content or app sales). They can't buy comparable components at a price to match Apple making it hard to undercut Apple and still make a reasonable profit. So how are they going to establish a house brand music and app store AND sell a less expensive PMP with a comparable screen to the touch? I suppose Samsung might be able to do so since they can supply much of the components themselves, but HP?
That said, as a consumer, we need better alternatives to Apple; I completely agree in that regard. However, Apple's competitors need to provide a complete product ecosystem (hardware, software and content) if they truly want to be players. Thus, I think the competition is going to have to come from someone like Amazon, and not from hardware companies like HP or Samsung . . . much as I might wish it were otherwise.
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What about the Samsung Galaxy Player?
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In regards to Amazon I agree they are a unique company that is currently in a position where they could launch a PMP. Didn’t they launch an music player at one point in the past. Amazon also has the problem of maintaining that balancing act between being the worlds online super mall and something like a google/Microsoft.
Amazon started off selling music at a lower price then iTunes, they were one of if not its only competitor for the music space. Then they branched out into Video. I believe they were offering Video rental before iTunes was offering them. But they never started selling their own hardware. That all changed with the Kindle and that was Risky move on their part but also a safe one as they just focused on books. Then they upgraded their “Prime Customers” to having unlimited VOID (a la Netflix). They provide that the Kindle could sell and that e-books are more than likely the direction books are headed.
I wonder if to the entertainment industry Amazon is their “Hope” of a competitor to iTunes? Or were they before Amazon launched their music locker service?
If you listen to the rumors it sounds like Amazon is going to launch a tablet of some sort. In todays world is that not a PMP? At least it could be depending size. A device that is less than 7’ could be considered a PMP/PDA in today world.
So, I guess I am is what we consider a PMP or PDA changed or evolved into the form factor of a small tablet or even a full size tabled itself?
Amazon started off selling music at a lower price then iTunes, they were one of if not its only competitor for the music space. Then they branched out into Video. I believe they were offering Video rental before iTunes was offering them. But they never started selling their own hardware. That all changed with the Kindle and that was Risky move on their part but also a safe one as they just focused on books. Then they upgraded their “Prime Customers” to having unlimited VOID (a la Netflix). They provide that the Kindle could sell and that e-books are more than likely the direction books are headed.
I wonder if to the entertainment industry Amazon is their “Hope” of a competitor to iTunes? Or were they before Amazon launched their music locker service?
If you listen to the rumors it sounds like Amazon is going to launch a tablet of some sort. In todays world is that not a PMP? At least it could be depending size. A device that is less than 7’ could be considered a PMP/PDA in today world.
So, I guess I am is what we consider a PMP or PDA changed or evolved into the form factor of a small tablet or even a full size tabled itself?
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I think that there are plenty of alternatives that, in the end, fall short of the iPod touch's functionality and capabilities. Furthermore, the alternatives are not properly marketed in most cases, whereas Apple is tremendously successful at doing such a thing. Plus, the company that creates a media player that even remotely resembles the iPod touch usually ends up being taken to court by Apple in a tedious copyright lawsuit.
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