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If you calculate the real pixel density you will find that the Galaxy Nexus is actually closer to a “real” ppi value of 200, which is slightly lower than on the Galaxy S II (that uses a Super AMOLED Plus with RGB pixel structure). Some claim that a PenTile panel needs around 420 ppi to qualify as a Retina display and that is probably also the reason why Retina is nowhere to be found on the specs sheets of neither Galaxy Note nor Galaxy Nexus. If you are keen on a Samsung smartphone you might even find that the screen in the Galaxy S II is better. But the iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S still lead the pixel race. Some people say they never notice the PenTile pixel structure but it is just like a stain on a carpet; once you see it, it is hard to disregard
I'm definitely not a fan of PenTile displays, but I'd like to see the Galaxy Nexus in person before writing it off completely. Either way, it's disappointing.
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Apparently the Galaxy Nexus has a PenTile display. Is that a dealbreaker for you?
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There are two issues:
- Does PenTile reduce the effective resolution? Of course. An HD display (like the Galaxy Nexus) with PenTile is simply not displaying as much information - and therefore will not look as clear - as a true HD display with full (standard RGB) pixels.
- Will the PenTile pattern be noticeable and distracting? Probably not. I have some experience with this, as I recently had hands-on time with the Droid RAZR, which is also PenTile, and also very high-resolution. I found the PenTile effect much less noticeable and less distracting at higher resolution. On a phone like the Nexus One, it jumps out and me and I hate it. But on the Droid RAZR, I had to look really closely to see it. It didn't bother me in normal use.
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Err... just because pentile does with 2 subpixels instead of 3 does not make its effective visibility go down by a third. Every article written WRT Pentile seems to lose objectivity and goes through corner-case scenarios based off irrational fears.
I'm sure articles like these and the Gizmodo one kinda forgot why the Retina display was impressive: pixel pitch. The distance between pixels were unresolvable to the naked eye that the whole display had the sensation of feeling like real, print media. It's this exact same thing going on in e-ink that makes it so crisp- even though e-ink has ridiculously low ppi/resolution values.
A Pentile SAMOLED HD display, though having 66% of the sub-pixels, does have the same pixel pitch as a normal matrixed LCD display, hence the "retina" effect that the display is seamless. Text in older Pentiles did suffer, but if ICS uses much stronger hinting on its typefaces (the iPhone 4's was ridiculously strong) it'll be a non-issue, and will be hard to spot.
I find it utterly ironic that so many people get anal about ppi and matrices, and then proceed to slap on horrible screen protectors on their phones that would induce way more artifacts than any alternative display technology.
I'm sure articles like these and the Gizmodo one kinda forgot why the Retina display was impressive: pixel pitch. The distance between pixels were unresolvable to the naked eye that the whole display had the sensation of feeling like real, print media. It's this exact same thing going on in e-ink that makes it so crisp- even though e-ink has ridiculously low ppi/resolution values.
A Pentile SAMOLED HD display, though having 66% of the sub-pixels, does have the same pixel pitch as a normal matrixed LCD display, hence the "retina" effect that the display is seamless. Text in older Pentiles did suffer, but if ICS uses much stronger hinting on its typefaces (the iPhone 4's was ridiculously strong) it'll be a non-issue, and will be hard to spot.
I find it utterly ironic that so many people get anal about ppi and matrices, and then proceed to slap on horrible screen protectors on their phones that would induce way more artifacts than any alternative display technology.
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It's definitely disappointing, but it's not dealbreaker for me. To me, the far greater appeal is in Ice Cream Sandwich. The value of getting that, bloatware free and potentially months before any other device can't be understated, in my opinion.
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There have been some good answers on this already but I'd just like to reiterate that people need to maintain some perspective.
While the concept of a 'retina display' providing a magazine like fidelity to images is a worthy goal, it really has little bearing on the perceptible quality of the display of a mobile phone past a certain point.
Given most of us sit at laptops with screens of 96 or at best 144 PPI, I'm not sure why we are all so concerned with phones, though I think I can guess.
The fact is, the pixel density of this phone will not be a issue given a comparable PPI to the 'real-stripe' Galaxy S2. What draws me about the display is the potential to display more information on screen at that resolution.
As desirable as the Galaxy Nexus is, I am still undecided whether I will upgrade.
I have the SGS2 and what I really wanted them to include is a next generation processor like Tegra 3 or Qualcomm S4 that improves battery life, since speed is really no longer an issue and most apps aren't even optimised for dual core.
While the concept of a 'retina display' providing a magazine like fidelity to images is a worthy goal, it really has little bearing on the perceptible quality of the display of a mobile phone past a certain point.
Given most of us sit at laptops with screens of 96 or at best 144 PPI, I'm not sure why we are all so concerned with phones, though I think I can guess.
The fact is, the pixel density of this phone will not be a issue given a comparable PPI to the 'real-stripe' Galaxy S2. What draws me about the display is the potential to display more information on screen at that resolution.
As desirable as the Galaxy Nexus is, I am still undecided whether I will upgrade.
I have the SGS2 and what I really wanted them to include is a next generation processor like Tegra 3 or Qualcomm S4 that improves battery life, since speed is really no longer an issue and most apps aren't even optimised for dual core.
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I'm sorry but that's just one silly way to disregard of device. You can't just say "I don't like it" just because it uses a different display technology. Yes using a pen-tile display makes it not be true 720p resolution but disregarding it for that, without even seing the device's screen in real life is just... childish.
If you see it in reality and the screen looks bad because of this samsung-patented tech then fair enough it's a deal breaker. But now just to say it's a deal breaker because you know a certain technology was used is like... turning down a date with a hot girl because someone came up to you and said she's not hot, although you have seen pictures of her looking hot.
I dunno, that's my 2 cents on the matter.
If you see it in reality and the screen looks bad because of this samsung-patented tech then fair enough it's a deal breaker. But now just to say it's a deal breaker because you know a certain technology was used is like... turning down a date with a hot girl because someone came up to you and said she's not hot, although you have seen pictures of her looking hot.
I dunno, that's my 2 cents on the matter.
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It looks like the writer of the article is just guessing that its PenTile purely on past Samsung naming conventions... and since this is a whole new screen and he apparently hasn't seen it himself... I am not going to give the claim any credibility.
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Interesting. I suspect that I'll be happy, since the screen will be better than my current Nexus One.
Basically I'm saying there will be enough of an improvement that I'll be happy enough.
Also, I'm looking forward to having a display where the LCD isn't like half an inch away from the glass, like my Nexus One. I saw a Galaxy S II recently and the difference there was huge!
Basically I'm saying there will be enough of an improvement that I'll be happy enough.
Also, I'm looking forward to having a display where the LCD isn't like half an inch away from the glass, like my Nexus One. I saw a Galaxy S II recently and the difference there was huge!
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I know some people really dislike pentile displays, but I have never had a problem with it on my nexus one. I think that simply dropping the ppi by 2/3rds since it is a pentile display is misleading. You still have 1280x720 pixels, but with the visual odditys that to some people have massive problems with, and others (including myself) dont notice.
edit:
As an extension to this. I would certainly prefer a 720p non-pentile screen to a pentile screen. But I would rather have a 720p pentile, than a qHD or WVGA non-pentile screen. <
edit:
As an extension to this. I would certainly prefer a 720p non-pentile screen to a pentile screen. But I would rather have a 720p pentile, than a qHD or WVGA non-pentile screen. <
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So, in terms of pixel, whether it's RGB or RG-BG, density the device is as advertised. It really is. Stop arguing that point. The software sees 1280 horizontal and 720 vertical pixels. The real issue is subpixels. And so I made a chart. tinyurl.com/3jvq6ga
Now what this tells me is that it really only lags behind the Atrix 2, Droid/Droid 2, and iPhone in subpixel density. It's still got a super high number of subpixels and it's still pretty hard to make out the individual pixels.
What should concern people isn't the pixels, it's the color representation and the effects that PenTile has on pixel width elements, dark to light transitions and color saturation. Truth be told, as a person with difficulty differentiating colors (neurologic form of color blindness, as in not red-green) I appreciate a little extra saturation, it helps me make out colors that I might otherwise miss. But I don't like the grainy nature. Still, look at the phone you're holding (Droid Incredible for me) then look back at the chart. It's likely a big difference between the one in your hand and Nexus. And really, wouldn't you rather have it now, than have to wait before RGB striped AMOLEDs hit HD resolutions? Imagine the cries and upheld pitchforks from the crowd if they made that announcement. "Dear masses, we're going to have the phone you want, in about six months!"
Now what this tells me is that it really only lags behind the Atrix 2, Droid/Droid 2, and iPhone in subpixel density. It's still got a super high number of subpixels and it's still pretty hard to make out the individual pixels.
What should concern people isn't the pixels, it's the color representation and the effects that PenTile has on pixel width elements, dark to light transitions and color saturation. Truth be told, as a person with difficulty differentiating colors (neurologic form of color blindness, as in not red-green) I appreciate a little extra saturation, it helps me make out colors that I might otherwise miss. But I don't like the grainy nature. Still, look at the phone you're holding (Droid Incredible for me) then look back at the chart. It's likely a big difference between the one in your hand and Nexus. And really, wouldn't you rather have it now, than have to wait before RGB striped AMOLEDs hit HD resolutions? Imagine the cries and upheld pitchforks from the crowd if they made that announcement. "Dear masses, we're going to have the phone you want, in about six months!"
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This isn't an issue for me.
A friend of mine was planning to get the Galaxy Nexus until he heard about the PenTile display. Apparently for color blind people this is a major detractor.
A friend of mine was planning to get the Galaxy Nexus until he heard about the PenTile display. Apparently for color blind people this is a major detractor.
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I am absolutely withholding judgement about the entire device until I get to see it in person. So far I am pretty excited about it, but I'm not going to make any decisions until I get to see it. And find out the launch details too, I suppose.
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Not a dealbreaker coming from a N1. It has never been a problem and I don't suspect it would become one.
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This actually made me revisit Galaxy S II. Better screen type and then some...
- microSD card
- more hand- and pocket-friendly dimensions and weight
- 8mp + 2mp vs. 5mp + 1.2mp cameras
- ARM Mali-400 MP vs. PowerVR SGX540
- possibly more accessories and better support due to existing market share and availability
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Seems like this discussion is all a month old but I'll give my 2 cents. Now that the phone is actually out it seems like the reviews are pretty positive on the display including people that criticize the pentile displays on lower ppi phones like the Razr. Definitely not a dealbreaker for me.
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The article I read on Gizmodo about it scared the heck out of me. How it can't possibly be considered a true Retina display, how if you run the numbers, the PPI is only 200...
That's actually not good at all. Especially since the new HTC Rezound should also have a 1280x720 screen. So if that is NOT a PenTile display, then it will be miles better than the Galaxy Nexus.
Between the display, the lack of SD card, and the fact that I might like a 4.3 inch screen better... it might be better to wait until the Rezound is rootable, root that, and put ICS on it.
gizmodo.com/5851806/why-the-galaxy-nexus-720p-scre...
That's actually not good at all. Especially since the new HTC Rezound should also have a 1280x720 screen. So if that is NOT a PenTile display, then it will be miles better than the Galaxy Nexus.
Between the display, the lack of SD card, and the fact that I might like a 4.3 inch screen better... it might be better to wait until the Rezound is rootable, root that, and put ICS on it.
gizmodo.com/5851806/why-the-galaxy-nexus-720p-scre...
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Err, No.
Simply because if I ever were to change from my newly acquired Nokia 701, unless the display was THAT bad to look at and work with, I couldn't care less.
Simply because if I ever were to change from my newly acquired Nokia 701, unless the display was THAT bad to look at and work with, I couldn't care less.
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It could be a dealbreaker for me. The Retina Display is the best thing about the iPhone 4. I have no interest in downgrading the legibility of the display. That said, I'll check out the Galaxy Nexus in person and compare them side-by-side before I pass judgement. I've used a Samsung Captivate and was not impressed. Whether the problem is the pixel density or Pentile or one exacerbating the problems of the other, I didn't like it.
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It's not killing me on my Photon, so it wouldn't be a deal-breaker to me. I would happily choose the Photon again over other phones that do not have PenTile.
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Definite deal breaker for me. Or rather it's the straw that broke the camel's back. A true 720p Super AMOLED screen was one of the few reasons I was getting one as a secondary phone. I stupidly assumed pentile was gone, but it looks like it will be with us for for a while yet.
Obviously there's still many great things about the Galaxy Nexus (Getting vanilla ICS with timely OS updates being the biggest advantage). However I'm too dissapointed in the ordinary camera (forgetting the improvements to the camera software in ICS - I'm talking about the fact its only 5 megapixels), the average graphics performance (imagine how laggy 3D games and advanced apps will be if rendered in native 720p with that crappy GPU!) and the lack of expansion options.
The way I view it is the Galaxy Nexus is a fantastic start to a whole new range of brilliant ICS optimised handsets. I'm going to wait a little to see what other manufacturers have come up with.
Obviously there's still many great things about the Galaxy Nexus (Getting vanilla ICS with timely OS updates being the biggest advantage). However I'm too dissapointed in the ordinary camera (forgetting the improvements to the camera software in ICS - I'm talking about the fact its only 5 megapixels), the average graphics performance (imagine how laggy 3D games and advanced apps will be if rendered in native 720p with that crappy GPU!) and the lack of expansion options.
The way I view it is the Galaxy Nexus is a fantastic start to a whole new range of brilliant ICS optimised handsets. I'm going to wait a little to see what other manufacturers have come up with.
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Yes. But I say that as a Nexus S owner... Nothing about the Galaxy Nexus makes me want to buy it. ICS looks awesome, especially the Gmail app. I'm going to run that on my Nexus S until some compelling hardware comes out. (i.e. 4 inch 720p super amoled display). 4.65 is just too big for me. If it was super amoled i'd deal with the extra size.
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I think it might be a deal breaker for me! I got AT&T's version of the Galaxy SII when it came out on Oct. 2nd, making it only 2 weeks old. When the Galaxy Nexus was announced I was a bit annoyed since it felt like my 2 week old phone was already out dated by the manufacturer. Since I'm still in my 30 day return window, I am considering taking the SII back.
Now, the more I read (no SD card, 5meg, different processor, now screen quality), I'm starting to think I'll be better off sticking with the phone I have.
Now, the more I read (no SD card, 5meg, different processor, now screen quality), I'm starting to think I'll be better off sticking with the phone I have.
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This is going to end up like all carriers making up what 4g means only with screen resolution. Confusing the consumer.
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AFAIK, the PenTile distortions are less noticeable at higher DPIs. Has any of the major blogs like Engadget complained about it in their hands-on?
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I occasionally notice the pentile display matrix on my AMOLED Nexus One, however I don't believe that it will be noticeable on the Galaxy Nexus due to its ultra-high pixel density.
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I think that Anandtech has a good writeup on this topic including a graph comparing subpixels per inch:
www.anandtech.com/show/5000/galaxy-nexus-pentile-d...
Also, an interesting writeup on the Atrix 2 which shows how it compares to its cousin the Droid Bionic in terms of non-pentile vs. pentile on the same size and resolution screens:
androidandme.com/2011/09/devices/motorola-atrix-2-...
Then again, maybe pentile screens are worse with LCD than Super AMOLED particularly at higher pixel densities. As others have said, it is probably best to evaluate it yourself. I remember hearing a review by Jason Howell of All About Android for the Droid Bionic where he mentioned how the pentile screen was a dealbreaker for him but that others weren't bothered by it.
www.anandtech.com/show/5000/galaxy-nexus-pentile-d...
Also, an interesting writeup on the Atrix 2 which shows how it compares to its cousin the Droid Bionic in terms of non-pentile vs. pentile on the same size and resolution screens:
androidandme.com/2011/09/devices/motorola-atrix-2-...
Then again, maybe pentile screens are worse with LCD than Super AMOLED particularly at higher pixel densities. As others have said, it is probably best to evaluate it yourself. I remember hearing a review by Jason Howell of All About Android for the Droid Bionic where he mentioned how the pentile screen was a dealbreaker for him but that others weren't bothered by it.
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Nope not a killer. I kinda like the idea of the energy savings Pentile is supposed to give over standard RGB. That is the manufacturer's claim though, so I take it with the grain of salt implied. I'd be curious to see a Pentile vs RGB energy consumption comparison...
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PenTile has bin talked about as being rough, but the Galaxy S (not II), which has such a display looks quite good. Honestly, if I can't see it, I won't care.
On the other hand, if the weird jaggedness is really that apparent it would probably drive me up a wall. I've got to see it to make up my mind.
P.S. - The HTC Rezound is rumoured to have the same resolution on a 4.3 inch S-LCD, that could be very interesting to see if the HTC with full subpixels on a LCD will look better than a PenTile AMOLED.
On the other hand, if the weird jaggedness is really that apparent it would probably drive me up a wall. I've got to see it to make up my mind.
P.S. - The HTC Rezound is rumoured to have the same resolution on a 4.3 inch S-LCD, that could be very interesting to see if the HTC with full subpixels on a LCD will look better than a PenTile AMOLED.
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It might be an issue if it felt like a downgrade. In my case, coming from an Epic 4G it would be an improvement, so I'm OK with it, though slightly disappointed.
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I am upgrading from the original Droid, so no. Its not an issue, and I would say if a pen tile screen is a deal breaker for someone than they are being pretty picky
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Not a deal breaker, though it's made me consider other options as I decide where to spend my $$ this fall.
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Not at all. I have the Samsung Fascinate, which is apparently also a pen-tile display. I love the Fascinate screen, so I don't know what all the fuss is about. I want the Galaxy Nexus!
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My current phone has a PenTile display and I never notice it.
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