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I'm guessing not many people have had this on their mind lately, but since the launch of Windows Phone 7 I've been wondering what will happen to Zune, Microsoft's oft-maligned line of portable media players (make your jokes now so we can get them out of the way, ok?). It's easy to dismiss Zune as a punchline, but whatever Microsoft does (or doesn't do) with Zune is going to tell us a lot about the company's long-term strategy for mobile.
Recall that it was kind of a big deal for Microsoft to abandon its previous media player strategy, which consisted mainly of licensing its PlaysForSure DRM platform to partners like SanDisk, iriver, and Creative, and start selling its own line of devices. But despite having poured lots of cash into designing and building the original Zune and its successors, the company has been eerily quiet about whether or not they're going to continue releasing hardware. There's been no official statement from the company, even though it's been well over a year since the Zune HD first went on sale. Whatever speculation there was a few months ago about a possible Zune HD2 being launched in early 2011 seems to have quieted down as well.
Part of the problem is that it's never been totally clear how Zune was supposed to relate to Microsoft's overall mobile OS strategy. Zune launched during the bad old days of Windows Mobile, and while the original Zune lacked most of the features of a smart device, its clean user interface was worlds apart from that of Windows Mobile, which was renowned for its clunkiness. Those differences were further magnified with the release of the Zune HD, which sported a web browser and could run a limited number of apps; anyone looking at a Zune HD next to a phone running Windows Mobile 6.5 would wonder why the OS meant for smartphones was so awful by comparison.
Microsoft's ambivalence about Zune isn't a recent development. It's apparent that once Microsoft made the decision to reboot Windows Mobile, they chose not to devote any more resources than necessary to Zune itself, spending very little on advertising and marketing and doing nothing to recruit developers to its nascent app platform. Even though it made sense to focus on Windows Phone 7, when the Zune HD came out in fall of 2009 it left Microsoft in the odd position of effectively orphaning a pretty solid device (it's a cliché, but Microsoft finally got it right on the third try). The result was that even though the Zune HD was well-reviewed -- see how enthusiastic owners are about it on gdgt -- it never really got the support it needed to get any kind of traction. Redmond had already moved on.
So when Microsoft finally bit the bullet in late 2008 and decided to scrap the next version of Windows Mobile they had been working on and start all over, they did something that made a lot of sense: they borrowed much of Zune's UI and code to build their next-generation mobile OS, Windows Phone 7. They even integrated Zune's media player software into WP7 -- so at the very least it will live on as the platform's media app.
Now with the first Windows Phones hitting the market it's even harder to figure out how Zune fits in. It certainly doesn't make sense for there to be a separate "Zune" platform given how much Windows Phone 7 has advanced, and given how tepid sales have been there are plenty of people that think Microsoft will just let it quietly die. It's not like many would blame them. I mean, given how hot smartphones and tablets are right now, you could understand not wanting to keep a line of dead-end media players going (plus Zune will still "live on" in WP7 and Xbox).
Will Microsoft introduce a new line of Zunes based on Windows Phone 7? As far as I know Microsoft isn't licensing Windows Phone 7 for non-phone devices -- they actually have very strict hardware requirements that currently preclude an OEM from releasing a tablet or portable media player -- so it's entirely possible that Microsoft has decided to reserve those categories for itself in order to introduce its own line of Zune-branded, WP7-powered devices. Doing so would certainly expand the market for apps in the same way the iPod touch expands the device base for iOS. Apple has proven there is certainly a market out there, having sold a TON of iPod touches over the past few years.
Doing so wouldn't be without some risk of alienating Windows Phone 7 hardware partners like HTC, Samsung, and LG. I don't think they'd love Microsoft keeping the non-phone market to itself, but it's also still possible they'd simply Zune die off as a hardware brand and we'll see some of those same partners making WP7-powered players and tablets in its place.
But what got me thinking about all this is that doing a line of WP7-powered Zune players would give Microsoft more of the control it seems to be craving these days. Microsoft is getting more and more comfortable with taking a more Apple-esque approach to integrating hardware, software, and services; just look at all the success they've had (and continue to have) with Xbox.
It's too late do it now, but it wouldn't have totally shocked me if Microsoft had decided to take that same integrated approach and cancel OEM licenses in favor releasing its own line of Windows Phones -- something they're certainly not averse to doing. Remember that Microsoft did actually put out a couple of handsets earlier this year, and even though KIN didn't work out -- perhaps the understatement of the year! -- it shows that Microsoft is increasingly willing to delve into the world of hardware.
Keeping Windows Phone to itself would have been an even bigger, riskier move than abandoning PlaysForSure -- pissing off a bunch of partners like that might have caused too many issues across Microsoft's other businesses -- but it is notable that they are keeping the OEMs on a short leash with WP7. They've laid down all kinds of restrictions on how the OS is used that they never had with Windows Mobile. While it might be too late for Microsoft to get the total control of building its own phones, it is conceivable that they could put out a new line of WP7-powered players and tablets, arguing that since they're not in the handset business they're not really competing with WP7 licensees.
This is all total speculation, but given how high the stakes are it's also entirely plausible. Would doing its own line of mobile hardware, even if it were just players and tablets, be the right path to take? I don't know, but I do know that Microsoft really wants to win, and given how far behind they already are -- Windows Phone 7 is years late with respect to its competition -- they might be reluctant about leaving their fate entirely in the hands of hardware partners (many of whom are hedging their bets by supporting Android and other mobile platforms). It would bring Microsoft into more direct competition with many of its licensees, but as I wrote about HP a few weeks ago, they might not feel like they have any choice if the alternative would be to effectively sit by the sidelines while Apple and Google dominate mobile.
Discussion about
What's next for Zune?
For most of the world, you know, that part surrounding the continental United States, we have never had the chance to even look at the Zune. Strange, but true. Microsoft chose to sell it only in the US, So really, who cares. We'll buy an ipod. At least Apple seems serious about actually selling their products. Frankly, it has become so boring to watch Microsoft always preparing to do something, always on thepoint of releasing something - next year. I think it is obvious that Microsoft is just too too big, impossible to direct, control, manage, whatever. Split it up, sell it off, do something with the damn thing.
You know you're so right. They spend months and months building the hype and then by the time it comes around, the trends are already 6 months ahead of them. They spend more time catching up than actually leading the way - as they once did.
It's definitely a shame that people outside of the US don't get many of the products that we do...not to mention some of the features (video services...etc)
It's definitely a shame that people outside of the US don't get many of the products that we do...not to mention some of the features (video services...etc)
Yeah, Microsoft is a big company that is slow to react. But there are lots of moving parts.
All the drama is inside, with the infighting and corporate politics. But to us on the outside it's just boring press releases that don't say anything about all the internal stuff.
The real story is with the internal groups. The actual good stuff originates in these internal groups. But it seems like these little groups are not only competing (as Microsoft) against everyone else in the technology marketplace, but they are also competing internally against other groups. For example, I've seen rumors that the Kin's demise were related to infighting.
All the drama is inside, with the infighting and corporate politics. But to us on the outside it's just boring press releases that don't say anything about all the internal stuff.
The real story is with the internal groups. The actual good stuff originates in these internal groups. But it seems like these little groups are not only competing (as Microsoft) against everyone else in the technology marketplace, but they are also competing internally against other groups. For example, I've seen rumors that the Kin's demise were related to infighting.
Microsoft has said for quite a while that Zune isn't a hardware line but a platform, and their recent moves clearly reflect this. There have also been statements from the Zune team that "WP7 is a device launch for us" seemingly indicating that there will be no new hardware anytime soon.
I can't imagine that there won't be a WP7 iPod Touch equal, but I doubt it will be in the near future. The Zune experience on WP7 is still lagging behind the Zune HD, and until those are equal/WP7 is better, you won't see any new Zune hardware.
Hopefully once we get some WP7 updates for things like OTA podcast downloading, Smart DJ on the device, etc, there will be more talk of new Zune hardware. I'd especially like to see some more cloud integration, which has been mentioned by Zune team members as well. In response to a question about cloud-based playlists, the hosts of the Zune Insider podcast reacted in a very interesting way saying nothing more than "Very interesting idea!" in a very patronizing manner.
All in all, I don't think Zune is dead on the hardware side of things. Clearly it is alive and well as a service. I think once Zune 5.0 (We're on 4.7 now. 5.0 has to be the next BIG thing) hits we'll also have some new Microsoft-made Zune hardware.
I can't imagine that there won't be a WP7 iPod Touch equal, but I doubt it will be in the near future. The Zune experience on WP7 is still lagging behind the Zune HD, and until those are equal/WP7 is better, you won't see any new Zune hardware.
Hopefully once we get some WP7 updates for things like OTA podcast downloading, Smart DJ on the device, etc, there will be more talk of new Zune hardware. I'd especially like to see some more cloud integration, which has been mentioned by Zune team members as well. In response to a question about cloud-based playlists, the hosts of the Zune Insider podcast reacted in a very interesting way saying nothing more than "Very interesting idea!" in a very patronizing manner.
All in all, I don't think Zune is dead on the hardware side of things. Clearly it is alive and well as a service. I think once Zune 5.0 (We're on 4.7 now. 5.0 has to be the next BIG thing) hits we'll also have some new Microsoft-made Zune hardware.
Sadly no matter how good the software so long as bulky proprietary software is REQUIRED to use the device I will have zero interest in it.
At the minimum give me mass storage support or MTP support to use any mtp software I want and I will be interested but if it comes with a required install CD its going back.
At the minimum give me mass storage support or MTP support to use any mtp software I want and I will be interested but if it comes with a required install CD its going back.
One thought, if they were going to let the Zune device wither on the vine then why have they been putting out more free and very high quality apps for it? Albeit there are very few apps for the Zune HD, they are awesome apps that are FREE! For the music lover there really is no better device anywhere than the Zune and the Zune client software. I have both iPods and a Zune HD and I absolutely dread opening iTunes. The software, beyond just being plain ugly, is a resource pig. As well the Zune Pass subscription gives me the ability to explore new music. You can't get that from iTunes.
A little crazy thought, would people be willing to pay $400 for a Zune device with 8GB/16GB of storage but with unlimited "free" 3G (a la Kindle, yes I know songs are bigger than e-books) for downloading/streaming songs from the marketplace? It wouldn't be real great if you didn't have Zune Pass, but for Zune Pass users it would be a great device.
I have a Zune HD and i have a windows phone 7. The Zune HD which is a year old is the superior media player and unless MSFT brings the WP7 up to par i won't be trading it in soon. Windows phone is great over all but when you compare it to the Zune HD it's a sorry and sad excuse for the Zune experience. no HD radio. no smart DJ. no channels. basically anything that made the Zune HD better than the iPod is no where to be found in the windows phone counterpart. even if those feature make it to the wp7 platform i believe that msft will keep it going. to build marketshare and attract devs msfy needs the platform to be as big as possible. that means that they will make a Zune HD2 but make it impossible to use it as a phone. the only way for msft to over come the catch 22 that is devs make apps for the big platforms and customers buy devices with the largest app marketplace. msft has to make a Zune HD 2. for record companies & movie studios to want to be a part of Zune there has to be a strong market presence. There will be a Zune HD 2. the more WP7 devices there are out there, the more leverage MSFT has. that and not everyone can get a Windows phone. Kids can't get one. people with bad credit can't get on a carrier to get one. many people won't pay for a data plan. the dedicated device is here to stay for a while. and MSFT will need the Zune HD as a standard. something to point at and say that this is how WP7 is supposed to look and run. there will be a Zune HD2. because it there isn't i can tell you already. by using the Zune hub in Windows phone 7. i'll be either sticking with my Zune HD or getting an iPod.
Microsoft dropped the ball with the Zune, they should have released it in Europe as well as America. I know plenty of people who would ditch the iPod for a Zune if they had the chance.
Personally I have a Zune HD and it's simply the best media player i've ever owned, even if it did cost me a crazy £400 to have it imported by Zunethings.
Personally I have a Zune HD and it's simply the best media player i've ever owned, even if it did cost me a crazy £400 to have it imported by Zunethings.
Hate to say it, but this is my problem with everyone's responses. Very little is being said about the actual hardware. The software sucks but so does iTunes. Zune pass, I believe everyone would agree is the best feature, but it's now not unique to the Zune.
The hardware has a kicking processor. I bought it for that...and while I appreciate the high quality apps they've been recently putting out, it's too little too late for me. This processor should let me multitask, but all I can do is listen to music while I open an app. This processor should allow me to create my own mixes of music from my collection....but it doesn't. This processor and the basic design of the Zune should blow away anything that Apple has.....but it doesn't.
What REALLY gets me is that this product they've manufactured...really does kick some serious butt when you lay it all out...but it's like every other Microsoft product (whether this is the size of the company or just the mentality of its employees)....it seriously is lacking in follow through. If I worked a product like this at my company, I would be fired..plan and simple. Apple, while annoying and seriously lacking in support for anything but the latest and greatest, follows through. They put effort into every product they make and marketing follows through.
The hardware has a kicking processor. I bought it for that...and while I appreciate the high quality apps they've been recently putting out, it's too little too late for me. This processor should let me multitask, but all I can do is listen to music while I open an app. This processor should allow me to create my own mixes of music from my collection....but it doesn't. This processor and the basic design of the Zune should blow away anything that Apple has.....but it doesn't.
What REALLY gets me is that this product they've manufactured...really does kick some serious butt when you lay it all out...but it's like every other Microsoft product (whether this is the size of the company or just the mentality of its employees)....it seriously is lacking in follow through. If I worked a product like this at my company, I would be fired..plan and simple. Apple, while annoying and seriously lacking in support for anything but the latest and greatest, follows through. They put effort into every product they make and marketing follows through.
I bought a little 4GB "blood red" Zune for me to use while working out and love it, but it turns out my wife loved it more, a lot of that because of ZunePass. I bought her a ZuneHD a few weeks later and she's totally in love with it. I really enjoy the crispness and simplicity of the UI, as does she, and really there's been less problems with the Zune(s) than there were with the iPod Touch (I could offload the iPod's troubles to iTunes, but I digress).
I could see Microsoft dumping the Zune because of their easiness to drop a product line without fully expelling it (no sales outside of the US?!) and alienate the die-hard fans of said product, but at the same time this is exactly why people don't stick with (or like) Microsoft. That's why I'm honestly surprised the Xbox is still around. I fully expected them to dip their toes in the water and run because it was too cold, but they kept at it and it's doing well. Why can't they do that with their other stuff?
I could see Microsoft dumping the Zune because of their easiness to drop a product line without fully expelling it (no sales outside of the US?!) and alienate the die-hard fans of said product, but at the same time this is exactly why people don't stick with (or like) Microsoft. That's why I'm honestly surprised the Xbox is still around. I fully expected them to dip their toes in the water and run because it was too cold, but they kept at it and it's doing well. Why can't they do that with their other stuff?
They should scrap zune, zune HD, and combine WP7 into a Phone , Media Player and Tablet within the same OS, so that apps for the platform can have some ubiquity and not need 3 builds, trash the Zune.
Let the OEMS handle hardware. Give the licensing away at a loss to encourage HTC and others to build your phone over Android. Offer insanity to them to sell your phone. Use some of those cash coffers. You'd have to run this at a loss. Drive people to the phones and devices with rebates and app-store credits.
Embrace Multi-touch from the WP7 to the PC, and scrap the multitouch in Windows 7 because it sucks. Strive for a Windows Phone, Media, Tablet, Desktop with the same feel --- so that anyone that can use one of the devices can use any of them. (Apple did a majestic job of this).
And again, let the OEMs handle hardware. MSFT can make a decent mouse, keyboard, and game controller.
Let the OEMS handle hardware. Give the licensing away at a loss to encourage HTC and others to build your phone over Android. Offer insanity to them to sell your phone. Use some of those cash coffers. You'd have to run this at a loss. Drive people to the phones and devices with rebates and app-store credits.
Embrace Multi-touch from the WP7 to the PC, and scrap the multitouch in Windows 7 because it sucks. Strive for a Windows Phone, Media, Tablet, Desktop with the same feel --- so that anyone that can use one of the devices can use any of them. (Apple did a majestic job of this).
And again, let the OEMs handle hardware. MSFT can make a decent mouse, keyboard, and game controller.
I do own 2 Zunes for the record -- and am a fan of the Zune Pass over Itunes. But for a long-term solution, to me it makes sense to converge the product lines so that there's more shared code and features,and focus on making the best experience possible as oppossed to 2 or 3 feature-forks.
They should also spin-off their phone company much like they did expedia -- and let them worry only about phones. They are just too big anymore.
Maybe bring back Gates -- he likes a challenge right?
They should also spin-off their phone company much like they did expedia -- and let them worry only about phones. They are just too big anymore.
Maybe bring back Gates -- he likes a challenge right?
I hope they don't scrap the Zune HD. Both my wife and I replaced our iPods with Zunes this year. MS has the opportunity to really open up the Zune market by making the Phone Apps compatible with the Zune. Once people start seeing how good this product is and how much better the Zune software is, the demand will go up.
The zune is by far SUPERIOR to the ipod in many many ways. in fact Apple did not catch up to the zune until the 5th gen Nano where they FINALLY enabled full screen album art.
I love the hardware. I love the gui. I actually prefer the old 30gb zune with its translucent soft sturdy edges. it "felt good" in the hand.
alas My zune gathers dust. why? simple. I can not tolerate or withstand the obomination that is the zune software. It is the nastiest most vulgar piece of music media software I have ever laid my eyes on and forces me to install windows updates I DO NOT WANT and that SHOULD NOT BE NEEDED in order to sync a music player.
I kept HOPING. I kept PRAYING someone would crack this damned thing wide open so I could sync it with say media monkey or god forbid simple sweet mass storage access.
alas no one ever did so it gathers dust for while I LOVE the zune hardware I simply can not put up with the Zune software.
If microsoft would just eliminate the software. Just give me a drive letter and let me dump my mp3's onto it I would GLADLY start using my zune again heck I would even go get a zune hd as its a very nice looking player.
but its just not worth it to be forced into using that ilk that is the zune software.
I love the hardware. I love the gui. I actually prefer the old 30gb zune with its translucent soft sturdy edges. it "felt good" in the hand.
alas My zune gathers dust. why? simple. I can not tolerate or withstand the obomination that is the zune software. It is the nastiest most vulgar piece of music media software I have ever laid my eyes on and forces me to install windows updates I DO NOT WANT and that SHOULD NOT BE NEEDED in order to sync a music player.
I kept HOPING. I kept PRAYING someone would crack this damned thing wide open so I could sync it with say media monkey or god forbid simple sweet mass storage access.
alas no one ever did so it gathers dust for while I LOVE the zune hardware I simply can not put up with the Zune software.
If microsoft would just eliminate the software. Just give me a drive letter and let me dump my mp3's onto it I would GLADLY start using my zune again heck I would even go get a zune hd as its a very nice looking player.
but its just not worth it to be forced into using that ilk that is the zune software.
The Zune software is way better then the iTunes software, my kids have a desk top with a bigger processer, more RAM, and more FSB speed then my laptop, we can start our music syncing software (mine is Zune, theirs is iTunes) and I will moving syncing my songs/videos while they are still waiting for the bloated monster to come up. The software is not perfect, but it still blow iTunes away.
thats assuming you can even manage to get the zune software to launch. with my nano I can open Media Monkey in 5 seconds and just drag and drop any music I want into my nano. I hate itunes too and I don't mind itunes BECAUSE I DON"T HAVE TO USE itunes :-) hehe
with zune. YOU MUST use the zune software. heck the zune software won't even let you put multiple songs into one album. you have to use ANOTHER piece of software to alter the "Album Artist" ID3 field since the zune software will IGNORE the "album" field and instead sort you music by this obscure "album artist" field that you can't even SEE from inside the zune software.
with zune. YOU MUST use the zune software. heck the zune software won't even let you put multiple songs into one album. you have to use ANOTHER piece of software to alter the "Album Artist" ID3 field since the zune software will IGNORE the "album" field and instead sort you music by this obscure "album artist" field that you can't even SEE from inside the zune software.
My Zune software works great, running Windows 7 Home Premium (32-bit) on a Toshiba A135-4427 with and upgraded HD and 3 gig of ram. I find that it is easier to manage my music with Zune then any other software. I have been able to drag and drop songs into the correct albums and run find album info that does the rest.
Our music is shared between 3 computers (2 running Zune, 1 running iTunes), an Xbox 360, a PS3 and an Apple TV (1st Gen). My kids (iPod Nano 4th Gen) get their music from iTunes, the wife and I (Zune HD 16 GB) get ours from Zune, it is dumped on to the same network drive and all programs add the songs when they contect to the network. Zune recognizes the music from iTunes no issues, iTunes wants to convert everything.
When I travel I have a 320 gig portable drive I take with music and video or movies on it I may need.
The only problem I had was iTunes wanting to manage the files (which I have disabled).
Our music is shared between 3 computers (2 running Zune, 1 running iTunes), an Xbox 360, a PS3 and an Apple TV (1st Gen). My kids (iPod Nano 4th Gen) get their music from iTunes, the wife and I (Zune HD 16 GB) get ours from Zune, it is dumped on to the same network drive and all programs add the songs when they contect to the network. Zune recognizes the music from iTunes no issues, iTunes wants to convert everything.
When I travel I have a 320 gig portable drive I take with music and video or movies on it I may need.
The only problem I had was iTunes wanting to manage the files (which I have disabled).
Regardging ID3 tags, I think you may be talking about an outdated version of the software. I use mp3tag.de to do my tagging (I'm extremely neurotic about them) but I believe sometime around the 3.1 release they fixed it so you can edit them.
That said I should point out that I love the Zune software and absolutely hate iTunes, enough so that I have refused to buy iPods for years. Zune on the other hand, I started using even before I purchased my first device.
That said I should point out that I love the Zune software and absolutely hate iTunes, enough so that I have refused to buy iPods for years. Zune on the other hand, I started using even before I purchased my first device.
Are you kidding me? ID3 Tagit is FREAKING AWESOME. it was the only reason I could even get music ON my zune since the zune software INSISTS on ordering music by a tag it can not even ALTER. (the album artists not the "album or artists" field but a whole nother little used field called album artists. took me MONTHS to figure that out.
Easy? why do I need windows .net? why do I need any of the other UNRELATED to mp3 players mandatory microsoft updates just to install zune software?
I don't like updates and fixes. My computers are ROCK SOLID stable and 100% virus free because I intelligently manage my own computers and one thing I do not do is "install software and updates that serve no actual valid purpose"
took me a few weeks to figure out how to "take apart" the zune install file and ONLY install the specific files REALLY needed to make the zune software to work.
what could possible be easier than "file explorer"
I have a folder calls MUSIC in that folder is a list of ARTISTS in any one of those folders is a folder for EACH ALBUM from said artist and in those folders are the mp3's
what could POSSIBLY be easier than OK I want XYZ artists so I click Music XYZ artists and drag and drop the desired albums to my mp3 player.
what could POSSIBLY be so stinking complicated about this function that I need 200 mb of buggy pain in the freaking patukee software to do it?
Easy? why do I need windows .net? why do I need any of the other UNRELATED to mp3 players mandatory microsoft updates just to install zune software?
I don't like updates and fixes. My computers are ROCK SOLID stable and 100% virus free because I intelligently manage my own computers and one thing I do not do is "install software and updates that serve no actual valid purpose"
took me a few weeks to figure out how to "take apart" the zune install file and ONLY install the specific files REALLY needed to make the zune software to work.
what could possible be easier than "file explorer"
I have a folder calls MUSIC in that folder is a list of ARTISTS in any one of those folders is a folder for EACH ALBUM from said artist and in those folders are the mp3's
what could POSSIBLY be easier than OK I want XYZ artists so I click Music XYZ artists and drag and drop the desired albums to my mp3 player.
what could POSSIBLY be so stinking complicated about this function that I need 200 mb of buggy pain in the freaking patukee software to do it?
I've got my music broken down into different folders with artists, albums, discs, etc too and it's great -- but a file explorer is not the most efficient way to navigate through that imo. It works well enough, but I prefer to segregate files into an "unsorted" folder until I get the time to put my customized ID3 tags on them, _then_ move them into my main music folder, and mp3tag.de is excellent for doing that.
Additionally, I listen to a lot of podcasts and obviously you can't get those via windows explorer.
Either way, the updated version does allow for modifying the Album Artist field, i.imgur.com/8DMKp.png , but I won't deny that -- for people like you and me -- it's not strong enough to do in depth ID3 tag modification.
As for the zune software being buggy, I can't remember the last time that I had it crash whereas I definitely can say that when I was last using Media Monkey crashes happened at least once a month if not week. And crashes aside, beyond the syncing two disc or more albums to a zune 120 bug*, I can't think of any bugs in the software. Have I missed something?
Finally, .net is just another part of windows. Sure I can't explain exactly why it is needed to run the zune software, but it's not making my computer any less secure than it previously was -- and I can assure you, it's secure enough. Yeah, windows updates can be annoying but they are pushed out for a reason and up to date software is less likely to be vulnerable than it's older, unpatched counterpart.
*in the software & on the HD it will play disc 1 then disc 2, on the 120 it will play track 1, 1, 2, 2, etc
Additionally, I listen to a lot of podcasts and obviously you can't get those via windows explorer.
Either way, the updated version does allow for modifying the Album Artist field, i.imgur.com/8DMKp.png , but I won't deny that -- for people like you and me -- it's not strong enough to do in depth ID3 tag modification.
As for the zune software being buggy, I can't remember the last time that I had it crash whereas I definitely can say that when I was last using Media Monkey crashes happened at least once a month if not week. And crashes aside, beyond the syncing two disc or more albums to a zune 120 bug*, I can't think of any bugs in the software. Have I missed something?
Finally, .net is just another part of windows. Sure I can't explain exactly why it is needed to run the zune software, but it's not making my computer any less secure than it previously was -- and I can assure you, it's secure enough. Yeah, windows updates can be annoying but they are pushed out for a reason and up to date software is less likely to be vulnerable than it's older, unpatched counterpart.
*in the software & on the HD it will play disc 1 then disc 2, on the 120 it will play track 1, 1, 2, 2, etc
.net is a universal structure setup to run software from. ie many programs "need" .net to run. I tend to avoid such programs because .net transfer an awful lot of control to microsoft. All microsoft has to do is "change" .net and they can "change" other people's software simply by virtue of them having to upgrade to keep it working if microsoft alters it to make it incompatible.
I want to discourage such kinds of software so I don't use .net alas zune software requires it.
Installer update? why is this needed?
Windows update ? why is this needed?
its not. Zune software was just a convenient way to force these kinds of updates by bloating the software.
in ... I can't even recall how many years I have not had Media Monkey crash one single time. Not one time at all.
NOW I have also never had zune software "crash" but I have had it "refuse" to install and give me a headache installing.
I have had it simply "stop working" after a period of time FORCING a reinstall and a return to problem #1 (hundreds and hundreds of people have this problem there are huge zune threads about it) its almost like MS built some time bomb into it and it simply dies from lack of use.
media monkey handles podcast downloading so does juice. Far far better than zune software. and yes File Explorer works just fine for podcasts because go figure I have a "podcast" folder and in their and folder for each podcast and in their all the shows for that podcast.
Works fine.
point is "I am in charge" with file explorer. MICROSOFT/APPLE are in charge with zune/itunes
at least they finally added the ability to edit that ALL IMPORTANT album artists (though the correct solution would be to STOP USING ALBUM ARTIST !!!
Most songs have NO tagging in that field the zune software POPULATES that field on its own using the ARTISTS field.
problem is when you have a custom album collection of 100+ songs all with DIFFERENT artists. see the problem?
Then its even worse. if you make the album artists the same as the album your album art breaks. they all use the SAME image ie the FIRST image.
the only way to fix this is to make sure the album artist is NOT the same as the ARTIST fields. (I use "Various" for album artist.)
this forces the zune to use the ALBUM field as it should have from the get go and corrects (usually) the album art issue.
Point is users do not even get a say. its "Zune software" or NO ZUNE and this is not right. I would even go so far as to say it should not be legal. IE manufactures should not be allowed to design the hardware to PREVENT people from "hacking" it.
My zune is a piece of property. its MY PROPERTY not microsofts.
its also why my nano is my first and last apple product. I just do not recognize apple's right to dictate terms and control over MY PROPERTY (app store restrictions installation restrictions etc..)
I want to discourage such kinds of software so I don't use .net alas zune software requires it.
Installer update? why is this needed?
Windows update ? why is this needed?
its not. Zune software was just a convenient way to force these kinds of updates by bloating the software.
in ... I can't even recall how many years I have not had Media Monkey crash one single time. Not one time at all.
NOW I have also never had zune software "crash" but I have had it "refuse" to install and give me a headache installing.
I have had it simply "stop working" after a period of time FORCING a reinstall and a return to problem #1 (hundreds and hundreds of people have this problem there are huge zune threads about it) its almost like MS built some time bomb into it and it simply dies from lack of use.
media monkey handles podcast downloading so does juice. Far far better than zune software. and yes File Explorer works just fine for podcasts because go figure I have a "podcast" folder and in their and folder for each podcast and in their all the shows for that podcast.
Works fine.
point is "I am in charge" with file explorer. MICROSOFT/APPLE are in charge with zune/itunes
at least they finally added the ability to edit that ALL IMPORTANT album artists (though the correct solution would be to STOP USING ALBUM ARTIST !!!
Most songs have NO tagging in that field the zune software POPULATES that field on its own using the ARTISTS field.
problem is when you have a custom album collection of 100+ songs all with DIFFERENT artists. see the problem?
Then its even worse. if you make the album artists the same as the album your album art breaks. they all use the SAME image ie the FIRST image.
the only way to fix this is to make sure the album artist is NOT the same as the ARTIST fields. (I use "Various" for album artist.)
this forces the zune to use the ALBUM field as it should have from the get go and corrects (usually) the album art issue.
Point is users do not even get a say. its "Zune software" or NO ZUNE and this is not right. I would even go so far as to say it should not be legal. IE manufactures should not be allowed to design the hardware to PREVENT people from "hacking" it.
My zune is a piece of property. its MY PROPERTY not microsofts.
its also why my nano is my first and last apple product. I just do not recognize apple's right to dictate terms and control over MY PROPERTY (app store restrictions installation restrictions etc..)
Well said!! With all the paranoid digital rights activists out there, it's difficult to find a company that allows you to keep your own stuff. I remember when I used to make mix tapes for my friends. Those were the days....now I have to see what player they have and rip my CDs accordingly.
I never understood why music/movie producers just don't get it.....hey...if you give me a song by an artist that I like....I will most likely buy more from them.....easy marketing 101.
Personal property in the digital age is a mute point...lol.
I never understood why music/movie producers just don't get it.....hey...if you give me a song by an artist that I like....I will most likely buy more from them.....easy marketing 101.
Personal property in the digital age is a mute point...lol.
I can explain that too. its rather easy once you realize.
How can you sue your customer base and survive? You can't
but wait is that not what the labels are doing? NO they are not.
but wait that lady up north just got hammered for 1.5 million. So? she is not a customer.
ohhh there it is. you see the mistake people make and why they don't see the logic of these decisions is that they assume that WE the people are the customers.
they are wrong. YOU are not a customer of Sony-BMG
you are a customer of an ARTIST. THE ARTIST is the customer of Sony-BMG (not picking on sony its just the first to pop into my head)
Let me make this clear. YOU ARE NOT THE CUSTOMER OF THE RIAA/MPAA
you are the customer of an ARTIST the ARTISTS is the CUSTOMER of the RIAA etc..
Digital media and all thats attached to it (mp3 internet distribution home studio's software powerful cheap home computers etc.. etc.. etc..) all EMPOWER the artist.
the reason they want to kill/control file sharing is because free simple cheap distribution is music EMPOWERS THE ARTISTS and reduces the NEED for a middle man (labels)
THIS is why they fight litigate sue demonize etc...
Because if the artists no longer NEED the labels the "cash trough" the labels are feeding from goes POOF and they are rather a bit upset about that. They LIKE being able to fleece and rape the artists. it makes them a lot of money.
The average artists makes 5 cents from each CD sale.
they could sell you a CD directly for $2 and make 20 times more profit from each CD sale than they do from the labels.
think about that for a moment and consider the implications.
NOW does the behavior of the labels make more sense?
it has nothing to do with piracy. it has to do with the pillaging of the artists by the labels.
How can you sue your customer base and survive? You can't
but wait is that not what the labels are doing? NO they are not.
but wait that lady up north just got hammered for 1.5 million. So? she is not a customer.
ohhh there it is. you see the mistake people make and why they don't see the logic of these decisions is that they assume that WE the people are the customers.
they are wrong. YOU are not a customer of Sony-BMG
you are a customer of an ARTIST. THE ARTIST is the customer of Sony-BMG (not picking on sony its just the first to pop into my head)
Let me make this clear. YOU ARE NOT THE CUSTOMER OF THE RIAA/MPAA
you are the customer of an ARTIST the ARTISTS is the CUSTOMER of the RIAA etc..
Digital media and all thats attached to it (mp3 internet distribution home studio's software powerful cheap home computers etc.. etc.. etc..) all EMPOWER the artist.
the reason they want to kill/control file sharing is because free simple cheap distribution is music EMPOWERS THE ARTISTS and reduces the NEED for a middle man (labels)
THIS is why they fight litigate sue demonize etc...
Because if the artists no longer NEED the labels the "cash trough" the labels are feeding from goes POOF and they are rather a bit upset about that. They LIKE being able to fleece and rape the artists. it makes them a lot of money.
The average artists makes 5 cents from each CD sale.
they could sell you a CD directly for $2 and make 20 times more profit from each CD sale than they do from the labels.
think about that for a moment and consider the implications.
NOW does the behavior of the labels make more sense?
it has nothing to do with piracy. it has to do with the pillaging of the artists by the labels.
I agree with you and it has never made sense to me. There is a way to empower artists and consumers, while still turning a profit, but they don't want to give up the old way of doing things. Problem is..the old way is a compact disc or tape or album....this while 1s and 0s things has them all confused...."what do we do??". Embrace change.....embrace technology and learn to make money.
Just look at tv..they are holding on to the past too. I should be able to watch a tv show via their websites or programs like Boxee...but they want me to watch their own way....the way they understand. Now..they make money from me watching in any form due to advertisements. And I'll happily watch more advertisements, if they allow me to watch it when I want and how I want.....but they don't get it.....the media world just doesn't get it.
Just look at tv..they are holding on to the past too. I should be able to watch a tv show via their websites or programs like Boxee...but they want me to watch their own way....the way they understand. Now..they make money from me watching in any form due to advertisements. And I'll happily watch more advertisements, if they allow me to watch it when I want and how I want.....but they don't get it.....the media world just doesn't get it.
No they do not misunderstand. They understand quite clearly. They just can't TELL US what they understand because it will expose the scam they are. SO they scream evil piracy instead of "we don't want to give up our artistic goulog.
TV also understands. there is no confusion. the problem is you do not realize why they fight against things like "boxee"
its because those things are trackable. They get PAID by advertisers based on viewership. The more popular the program is the more they get paid.
or at least the more popular a program is PERCEIVED to be. If we all used downloads there would be no more ambiguity. There would be no more "somewhat this" or "somewhat that"
the viewership numbers would be EXACT and PRECISE and advertisers would learn from this and insist on fixed pricing "per viewer" kind of ratio's or something along those lines.
I wonder how many shows which are profitable but they "inflate" the popularity to advertisers so they can charge more?
also its a similar (but not quite the same) problem as with the RIAA.
right now there is fixed controlled infrastructure to release television content.
you have to own billions of dollars in equipment to "air" a television program heck they just sold the analog spectrum (digital BLOWS big time I might add) for 20 BILLION dollars.
what causes a production to work so hard to get on ONE network over another? what gives the networks to POWER to negotiate network friendly biased deals to AIR these programs?
the monopoly they have over the airwaves.
Digital Distribution as with the RIAA eliminates this monopoly (or potentially ALLOWS elimination of this monopoly to happen)
this means anyone could distribute video television programming so your precious multi billion dollar network infrastructure is "poof" now.
it would actually create a competitive environment. a lower cost operation could afford to OFFER MORE MONEY for a program since their costs are lower.
sure at first the networks could just "out bid" everyone but as advertisers learned more and more the exact numbers for viewership they would be able to exert more and more control over the price paid IE LESS.
its all about control.
these people are WAY WAY smarter than you and me. Trust me on this. you don't build a multi million or billion dollar company being an idiot or even just being average.
the issue is THEY can do something the average person is VERY VERY bad at.
They can "look into the future" and see the eventual consequences of decisions and actions today. They can see "long term" while the average person has trouble seeing past next week.
which is why this stuff does not make sense to the average person.
but once you start to think "long term" suddenly it makes PERFECT sense.
TV also understands. there is no confusion. the problem is you do not realize why they fight against things like "boxee"
its because those things are trackable. They get PAID by advertisers based on viewership. The more popular the program is the more they get paid.
or at least the more popular a program is PERCEIVED to be. If we all used downloads there would be no more ambiguity. There would be no more "somewhat this" or "somewhat that"
the viewership numbers would be EXACT and PRECISE and advertisers would learn from this and insist on fixed pricing "per viewer" kind of ratio's or something along those lines.
I wonder how many shows which are profitable but they "inflate" the popularity to advertisers so they can charge more?
also its a similar (but not quite the same) problem as with the RIAA.
right now there is fixed controlled infrastructure to release television content.
you have to own billions of dollars in equipment to "air" a television program heck they just sold the analog spectrum (digital BLOWS big time I might add) for 20 BILLION dollars.
what causes a production to work so hard to get on ONE network over another? what gives the networks to POWER to negotiate network friendly biased deals to AIR these programs?
the monopoly they have over the airwaves.
Digital Distribution as with the RIAA eliminates this monopoly (or potentially ALLOWS elimination of this monopoly to happen)
this means anyone could distribute video television programming so your precious multi billion dollar network infrastructure is "poof" now.
it would actually create a competitive environment. a lower cost operation could afford to OFFER MORE MONEY for a program since their costs are lower.
sure at first the networks could just "out bid" everyone but as advertisers learned more and more the exact numbers for viewership they would be able to exert more and more control over the price paid IE LESS.
its all about control.
these people are WAY WAY smarter than you and me. Trust me on this. you don't build a multi million or billion dollar company being an idiot or even just being average.
the issue is THEY can do something the average person is VERY VERY bad at.
They can "look into the future" and see the eventual consequences of decisions and actions today. They can see "long term" while the average person has trouble seeing past next week.
which is why this stuff does not make sense to the average person.
but once you start to think "long term" suddenly it makes PERFECT sense.
That's not true - You can easily edit the "Album Artist" field with the Zune software. And it makes sense to not drop multiple album artists into the same album by default, since there ARE albums with the same name but different artists, and you really shouldn't want your software to automatically combine them.
Yes it is true. `100% true for the version of the software I have. apparently a version released in the last 1.5 years DOES now allow editing this tag field (last time I used my zune)
I DO want it to combine them. I want it to OBEY the album tag (hell I don't even WANT it to look at "tags" I want it to obey my folder structure but thats asking too much I guess.
I have a "Favorites" album that is made up of all my favorite music that I listen to every day (currently 112 songs)
SO I made the "album" for all of these "Favorites" so they would be ALL ONE album on the zune.
Took me FOREVER (2-3 weeks) to figure out that there was this other unused tag that IT USED.
thats when I found ID3 Tag It.
Playlists do not work because it still leaves me with 112 single song albums cluttering up my album view.
NO OTHER DEVICE/Software I HAVE EVER OWNED uses the "album artist" field and in fact not only does zune USE IT but it POPULATES IT IF ITS NOT USED.
talk about annoying.
All I want is a NICE mp3 player that has the nice gui and hardware support of devices like the Zune and Ipod
but WITHOUT the stinking software. I just want a mass storage usb connection and for the software to treat a FOLDER as an ALBUM.
is that so hard? but no they waste money on this useless crap interface software to try and encourage DRM music usage which I will never ever buy into. I rip my own CD's I don't "rent" music.
I DO want it to combine them. I want it to OBEY the album tag (hell I don't even WANT it to look at "tags" I want it to obey my folder structure but thats asking too much I guess.
I have a "Favorites" album that is made up of all my favorite music that I listen to every day (currently 112 songs)
SO I made the "album" for all of these "Favorites" so they would be ALL ONE album on the zune.
Took me FOREVER (2-3 weeks) to figure out that there was this other unused tag that IT USED.
thats when I found ID3 Tag It.
Playlists do not work because it still leaves me with 112 single song albums cluttering up my album view.
NO OTHER DEVICE/Software I HAVE EVER OWNED uses the "album artist" field and in fact not only does zune USE IT but it POPULATES IT IF ITS NOT USED.
talk about annoying.
All I want is a NICE mp3 player that has the nice gui and hardware support of devices like the Zune and Ipod
but WITHOUT the stinking software. I just want a mass storage usb connection and for the software to treat a FOLDER as an ALBUM.
is that so hard? but no they waste money on this useless crap interface software to try and encourage DRM music usage which I will never ever buy into. I rip my own CD's I don't "rent" music.
Has Microsoft given any indication what their plans are, if any, for the WP7 platform on tablet-like devices?
I'd say Zune 7 coming '11 as an exact equivalent of iPod Touch, but cheaper.
This was on my mind as soon as WP7 was released. I'd love the Zune to live on, i would love a Zune but alas Microsoft hasn't done that with many other things.
I would love to see tablets with Zune on them. I would also love to see a Zune app on Android. As far as releasing a smaller device like an IPOD, I think it's too late. As much as I hate it, Phones are taking over that kind of device.
I am a Zune pass subscriber and I love my Zune.
I am a Zune pass subscriber and I love my Zune.
Call me crazy, but would it not make sense for Microsoft to get one of its partners to make a Zune HD Phone. Google partners with companies to make Google phones. I just want a phone that looks as gorgeous as the Zune HD. No other device can compare to the iPhone4, and all the windows 7 phones look freaken ugly as hell, and i want one so bad.
Microsft could even release it as a dev device like google has, to encourage devs to produce apps for windows phone 7
Microsft could even release it as a dev device like google has, to encourage devs to produce apps for windows phone 7
Microsoft needs to continue to work on the platform. The zune software is awesome. A breathe of fresh air if you are forced to use iTunes. The devices are solid, but suffer from abandonment issues from their creator. Even if MS rips off what apple does, they need to stay in the market as a healthy alternative to the apple monopoly.
Peter, I would like to encourage you to be clear when you are speaking to Zune player devices and the Zune entertainment platform. I can see in the above article that people could get confused about talk that Zune is going away and may not understand that it is also a growing cross-screen media platform ingredient for many other Microsoft services and is less about Zune player devices.
I thought the Zune HD was an amazing piece of hardware. Especially when compared to an iPod touch the two were clearly not copying each other. I think that the Zune music players will either die out and the Zune brand will remain as Microsoft's music subscription service only or Microsoft will bring back a refreshed Zune HD with compatibility for Windows Phone 7 apps, and other updated features. I like having a stand alone music player because if you have a smartphone that plays music, playing music will suck battery life which is kind of tough to reserve on modern day smartphones.
I think the Zune is a really interesting piece of hardware and that it would be a success if it was launched in somewhere more than the US and it had some more features. This is Microsoft's only real entry in the PMP market and I think with some improvements, it could be amazing. Microsoft probably need a PMP to just have something in the market and I don't think that the Zune HD, with it's limited apps really pushes into that. I think that if WP7 apps could work on the Zune, (like the iTunes store), and with new hardware this has potential
A source from Microsoft has told me (even before Peter posted this) that the hardware side of Zune usually goes through a major update cycle of every 2 years. So Zune HD was released in Fall 2009, so the next version will be Fall 2011. You don't have to believe me, but the last time we talked, that's what the direction they seemed to be going.
It seems very doubtful Microsoft will be working on their own hardware line of other stuff, when the key to Microsoft's success has always been allowing other companies to use Microsoft's technology and do great and different stuff with it. MS probably killed PlayForSure because it was going nowhere fast, and none of the other OEMs were doing a better job at making compelling devices so introducing the Zune wasn't that risky. Don't know real sale numbers, but I think Zune devices would probably be 2nd in sales compared to iPods.
The Kin was tapping a more experimental market, and not really along the same line as competing with their traditional WinMo partners. It didn't succeed for obvious reason, but the idea behind it sounded great if only it had been implemented better.
Anyway, it seems like Zune HD2 will adopt a similar WP7 framework (minus the phone of course), and try to outdo or match the iPod Touch in hardware.
It seems very doubtful Microsoft will be working on their own hardware line of other stuff, when the key to Microsoft's success has always been allowing other companies to use Microsoft's technology and do great and different stuff with it. MS probably killed PlayForSure because it was going nowhere fast, and none of the other OEMs were doing a better job at making compelling devices so introducing the Zune wasn't that risky. Don't know real sale numbers, but I think Zune devices would probably be 2nd in sales compared to iPods.
The Kin was tapping a more experimental market, and not really along the same line as competing with their traditional WinMo partners. It didn't succeed for obvious reason, but the idea behind it sounded great if only it had been implemented better.
Anyway, it seems like Zune HD2 will adopt a similar WP7 framework (minus the phone of course), and try to outdo or match the iPod Touch in hardware.
I'm a Zune HD owner. I bought it because of the potential with the mega processor, and the reviews were great. Unfortunately what I got was a glorified music player. They've released free apps made by Microsoft - don't get me wrong...I LOVE free - but the apps sucked. It took them almost a year to release a facebook app that is extremely sub par. The only thing good about the device was the music...I spent 100 more bucks when I could have bought the non-HD version for much cheaper and gotten the same experience for the most part. The only promise for the future is a handful of wonderful minded programmers who hacked the device for some apps....
I really wish I wouldn't have bought the device and I certainly can't sell it ...as nobody wants one.
I really wish I wouldn't have bought the device and I certainly can't sell it ...as nobody wants one.
Zune HD was never meant to be running apps like the iPod Touch. The focus was on the audio/video aspect, not apps. If Microsoft was serious about apps on the HD they would have had a marketplace with dev's lined up before launch. Really i could only think of a few apps i would want on my media player, mainly things like pandora or last.fm. Most apps should be left to phones with a data connection, not a media player with wifi.
Btw i agree that facebook app sucks bad.
Btw i agree that facebook app sucks bad.
Ok, so I would just like to point out...all the videos...DVDs...etc that I've purchased with "Digital copy" content has never been able to transfer to my Zune...I've tried....many times...maybe I'm stupid,, but it's not easy. What's the point? The processor screams for this thing to do more than just play music and they have failed to deliver on that front. I can watch video on my computer and TV...don't need it on my Zune..thanks
I'm not sure you would be able to copy any of the Digital copies you get from dvd's/blurays as they are all copy protected. Video on the zune is great. I happen to use the zune dock hooked up to my bedroom TV for podcasts/Music videos and it looks great. Videos on the go are no worse than a Touch or any smartphones out there.
I sold mine on ebay, so someones buying them. I miss audiosurf though, that was the perfect pmp app.
