The Pre was one of the first gadgets I put on my want list back in July when we launched, but after a few months now I have to concede that I'm just not that interested in it anymore.
I get why people like the Pre and I think there are lots of great things about it -- I think the UI is amazing and I love the keyboard -- but I've been disappointed by how cheap the hardware feels compared with other phones out there, and the fact that there are so few apps for it has been really frustrating.
It looks like the market agrees with me here, analyst reports are that sales of the Pre have been lackluster so far, and surely below Palm's expectations. Part of that has been that the phone is limited to Sprint right now, but I think part of it is also that we've seen a surge in Android this Fall; it's hard to say that the DROID, for all its flaws, isn't at least as compelling as the Pre.
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Removed this from my Want List
In less than 8 weeks it will be 1 year since announcement. Still it has barely been updated and is barely available outside the US. We knew last January that time to market would be critical and they failed to deliver. Competitors do not stay still while Palm tries to figure out its supply chain.
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I am very biased because I have never used or had any sort of Palm product, but let's face it, what have they made that actually is priced well, looks good, marketed well and reasonable? Not much, if anything...ever. Obviously many people would argue with me about this, but Palm will never spark my interest. The Palm Centro looked horrible and was grossly overhyped. The old school Palm Pilots were not worth the money and had lots of problems. Probably their main issue now is dealing with Sprint. I live in New England where Sprint sucks and NO ONE I know owns a Sprint phone. From one Peter to the next, good job killing Palm, cuz they suck and maybe they will take down sprint with them. God I hate Sprint!
That was probably the stupidest thing I've read all day...and I've been on youtube.
See, I always thought that MORE competition would better motivate everybody to find new ways to innovate. Kinda how Palm is trying, and Sprint is now offering the best value.
Keep in mind that Palm has only about a thousand people, fractions of the size of almost every other competitor.
See, I always thought that MORE competition would better motivate everybody to find new ways to innovate. Kinda how Palm is trying, and Sprint is now offering the best value.
Keep in mind that Palm has only about a thousand people, fractions of the size of almost every other competitor.
So.......stupidest is not a word, and being on youtube all day is not something to brag about. I agree with you that competition drives down prices and leads to more innovation, but there's bad and then there's Palm.
Honestly I don't care that the company is smaller than the others because they don't show it the way they advertise probably about as much as motorola and samsung do for their phones. In my understanding, larger companies advertise more so Palm being smaller, yet advertising on the same level doesn't go along with what you are saying.
Like I mentioned, being in the Northeast either gives Sprint a bad name or just shows how bad they are in an area that AT&T and Verizon thrive because people have a lot of money to spend. Thinking back before I moved, Sprint was a horrible home phone service when I lived in North Carolina about 10 years ago. I can be honest and say that Sprint sucks and Palm (or anyone who lives and dies with Sprint) will just continue to underwhelm and take up consumers' time trying to explain their crappy new devices and how they don't measure up to the competition, or I can lie and say that you know what you are talking about.
Honestly I don't care that the company is smaller than the others because they don't show it the way they advertise probably about as much as motorola and samsung do for their phones. In my understanding, larger companies advertise more so Palm being smaller, yet advertising on the same level doesn't go along with what you are saying.
Like I mentioned, being in the Northeast either gives Sprint a bad name or just shows how bad they are in an area that AT&T and Verizon thrive because people have a lot of money to spend. Thinking back before I moved, Sprint was a horrible home phone service when I lived in North Carolina about 10 years ago. I can be honest and say that Sprint sucks and Palm (or anyone who lives and dies with Sprint) will just continue to underwhelm and take up consumers' time trying to explain their crappy new devices and how they don't measure up to the competition, or I can lie and say that you know what you are talking about.
I got my Pre at launch and have few complaints about my experience so far. There are some quirks that get annoying, but it was the announcement of Pixi that made me worried for WebOS in general. I feel like Palm needed to commit to a standardized format and then develop the crap out of it. Complicating things for developers is such a bad idea. It's not exactly like many of them were champing at the bit in the first place.
And Pixi is barely cheaper than Pre at this point since it has been out on the market for so long. I have pretty much accepted the fact that I'm going to be moving to a new platform when my Pre is over and done with.
And Pixi is barely cheaper than Pre at this point since it has been out on the market for so long. I have pretty much accepted the fact that I'm going to be moving to a new platform when my Pre is over and done with.
I did the same thing, but couldn't wait. I just a week ago maybe moved the pre from have to had. It is a great OS, and I had high hopes, but I became less and less able to convince myself that it would acheive the same quality as iPhone. Dragging is still choppy (UI), the apps are all 3rd party or don't exist (facebook, flickr, yammer etc), and most of the web apps like gmail, latitude etc just don't work.
It was a hard move, but I feel like there was some sort of inflection point about 3 weeks ago. Not sure what it was though, but the mood on the web seemed to change.
It was a hard move, but I feel like there was some sort of inflection point about 3 weeks ago. Not sure what it was though, but the mood on the web seemed to change.
it's funny how this phone was supposed to revitalize Palm and there was so much fanfare at CES and Motorola- the company EVERYBODY thought was dead and had virtually no hope of gaining a comeback now has the hottest phone on the market (Moto Droid).
I think this occurred because of 2 BIG factors- Verizon was the better network to launch a "comeback" device, and Moto got to focus on hardware instead of software by adopting Android. Also, since the Droid is the first device to be Android 2.0 and the first phone to stray away from the de-facto standard Android 1.0 processor, people are gravitating toward this phone as really the first viable Android handset.
I still think webOS has great potential and there is room for it in the market. But Palm needs to be on other networks and the have always had a tradition on being on every network with the Treo line. The Pre specifically needs some tweaks and maybe a GSM version with a hardware refresh can help- but it's going to take a lot to sway developers from the Apple OS, Android, and (RIM?) right now.
I think this occurred because of 2 BIG factors- Verizon was the better network to launch a "comeback" device, and Moto got to focus on hardware instead of software by adopting Android. Also, since the Droid is the first device to be Android 2.0 and the first phone to stray away from the de-facto standard Android 1.0 processor, people are gravitating toward this phone as really the first viable Android handset.
I still think webOS has great potential and there is room for it in the market. But Palm needs to be on other networks and the have always had a tradition on being on every network with the Treo line. The Pre specifically needs some tweaks and maybe a GSM version with a hardware refresh can help- but it's going to take a lot to sway developers from the Apple OS, Android, and (RIM?) right now.
agreed, Palm HAS to get onto other networks, whether it's truthful or not Sprint has a reputation that people aren't going to switch for. I love the look of webOS better than Android even HTC's sense ui, yeah Android is more open, but it's no amazing (app)store full of toys either, my roommate and girlfriend got Droids this week, they like their phones and love their network but both are disappointed by the lack of "iphone apps" on the droid, seems like regular folk don't "get it", they dont know enough to know that smartphones are & aren;t like computers, you have to watch your battery usage like it was a laptop, but your apps are gonna depend on whether you are a "mac or pc".
personally I'd love a Pixi with wifi on a GSM carrier, sounds like a lot of people would, more than a gsm Pre, c'mon Palm don't let us down, we are cheering for you, we just aren't gonna switch to Sprint for you.
personally I'd love a Pixi with wifi on a GSM carrier, sounds like a lot of people would, more than a gsm Pre, c'mon Palm don't let us down, we are cheering for you, we just aren't gonna switch to Sprint for you.
This is the exact same way I feel. I would have gladly paid an unsubsidized price for an unlocked gsm version of the Pre when it launched last year. Not so much now. I own a G1 and will most probably be sticking with android for quite a while. Can't wait to get 2.0 on a faster phone...
Loyal Pre Owner here, but even i have wondered lately whether Android is inevitable. Truth is to date I'm really not interested in any Android phones, I just dont think the Droid is compelling aesthetically though it is a powerhouse. I like the Pre, WebOS could be great. Getting sheer numbers and thereby attracting developers is still a possibility but not certain. A Pre II with better hardware and battery life could also go a long way. Timing obviously has really hurt the Pre, one year earlier would have made a huge difference where all Verizon had to offer was the Storm. We will see. I hope it lasts, competition is good, and Palm does have a strong device here.
The Droid isn't really any more powerful than the Pre - they have the same processor and amount of RAM. Having said that - I have been finding myself a little bit underwhelmed with my Pre lately. WebOS, like everyone has said, is simply amazing - but the hardware feels so cheap and it's already gotten so scuffed and scratched that I just want to file an insurance claim to get a new handset.
I think what Palm needs to do is release a touchscreen-only webOS device running on a Snapdragon or Tegra processor. If webOS was on the most powerful handset possible people would notice and flock to it. Palm would catch even more consumers if they would _finally_ allow developers to harness the GPU for 3D games and what-not.
I think what Palm needs to do is release a touchscreen-only webOS device running on a Snapdragon or Tegra processor. If webOS was on the most powerful handset possible people would notice and flock to it. Palm would catch even more consumers if they would _finally_ allow developers to harness the GPU for 3D games and what-not.
I think I'm still going to rock the Pre next month. I sorta agree with Stan in that the Pixi complicates things, but I'm thinking it actually might be the thing that WebOS needs: Differentiation. Rather than be seen as the Droid / iPhone competitor, the Pixi could actually help Palm lay in a solid base. If Centros were all running something not awful like PalmOS, I think devs might have given them a shot.
That being said, devs don't want to develop for fashonistas and other would-be feature phoners, they want to develop for bleeding edge types who embrace change and want to try new things. Palm will likely be stuck in this developer lure dance for longer than it likes, but it'll be a better shot at winning the race than continuing to go Pre / Droid / iPhone, since the latter two are going to kill it with dev support.
They might have a shot, but I'm still going Pre even if its sans apps.
That being said, devs don't want to develop for fashonistas and other would-be feature phoners, they want to develop for bleeding edge types who embrace change and want to try new things. Palm will likely be stuck in this developer lure dance for longer than it likes, but it'll be a better shot at winning the race than continuing to go Pre / Droid / iPhone, since the latter two are going to kill it with dev support.
They might have a shot, but I'm still going Pre even if its sans apps.
My wife has a Pre, and my experience with it leaves me with two conclusions:
1. I love webOS
2. The Pre is not good enough hardware for it. (Nor is the Pixi. Reducing screen res? Ouch.)
Until better webOS hardware comes out (even on Sprint... I think I could maybe live with Sprint), I can't consider Palm.
1. I love webOS
2. The Pre is not good enough hardware for it. (Nor is the Pixi. Reducing screen res? Ouch.)
Until better webOS hardware comes out (even on Sprint... I think I could maybe live with Sprint), I can't consider Palm.
I think Palm's been doing a lot to kill itself by not paying attention to the developer community. I just got an email *yesterday* about them "heading towards the public launch of the Palm webOS Developer Program." I think at this point, they've just dragged their feet too long to ever catch up with Android or iPhoneOS. Which is a shame, because I think WebOS is the nicest UI of the lot.
And now, back to badgering my wife to let me get a DROID... ;-)
And now, back to badgering my wife to let me get a DROID... ;-)
I agree with your overall points, but I am still routing for the Pre. My biggest worry is that it will never be supported and die too soon just because it doesn't have the following. That support will go away because not enough people have it and the only way to expand mobile devices nowadays is through apps. No apps for the Pre = no developer support. Really hoping that doesn't happen. I really like my Pre!
I think they've done more for developers than Apple or Google has. They've embraced the homebrew community..released an in-browser app builder..and now after CES have granted devs deeper access into the SDK for 3d gaming.
I know you wrote this a month ago but in what ways do you think Palm has shunned or turned off developers?
I know you wrote this a month ago but in what ways do you think Palm has shunned or turned off developers?
Completely agree. Check out the apps/games for the Pre now...they are pretty amazing, and this is only 6 months after the launch of the phone/OS. Not to mention the homebrew tweaks. With them I can change pretty much every property of the phone to make it function exactly how I want it. Definitely something you can't do with the iPhone or Android.
Hardware, hardware, hardware. That's the thing that's probably hurting palm.
Better quality parts, and also the sliding factor I think really hurt it as well. Slide open to type. Slide close. Slide open to type. Slide close. Wait, I need it open. It gets in the way of itself.
My wife just leaves hers open all the time.
I love my pre, just wish it were built better. I think people like to bag on Sprint just cause it's vogue to do so. I have very little problems with them and see no need to leave for a more costly network for less features.
I think the pixi was almost the right idea if it had the come out before the pre but with wifi and the faster processor and the same camera. The candy bar format wins over the slider format.
Better quality parts, and also the sliding factor I think really hurt it as well. Slide open to type. Slide close. Slide open to type. Slide close. Wait, I need it open. It gets in the way of itself.
My wife just leaves hers open all the time.
I love my pre, just wish it were built better. I think people like to bag on Sprint just cause it's vogue to do so. I have very little problems with them and see no need to leave for a more costly network for less features.
I think the pixi was almost the right idea if it had the come out before the pre but with wifi and the faster processor and the same camera. The candy bar format wins over the slider format.
I agree with the thoughts that WebOS is a wonderful OS, in many ways I feel it is a better user interface than iPhone OS or Android. I also agree that the hardware of both WebOS devices are lacking and not befiting the software. To me this is strange as I always thought of Jon Rubenstein as a hardware guy from his Apple days. It'll be intereting to see the next device, hopefully on a different carrier. In my dream world Apple would aquire Palm and merge WebOS into iPhone OS.
Jonathan,
the problem with your dreamworld is that the WebOS was the first idea Apple for it OS. They although decided to go the way that they did today because of graphics I believe. IMHO this is why Jon Rubenstein went to Palm in the first place. I think he pitched the idea, they told him no, he felt burned and pitched to Palm and the rest is history. Now Apple is to proud to ever admit Rubenstein was right (if he happens to prove himself so in a year or two) and would never merge it on principal alone.
the problem with your dreamworld is that the WebOS was the first idea Apple for it OS. They although decided to go the way that they did today because of graphics I believe. IMHO this is why Jon Rubenstein went to Palm in the first place. I think he pitched the idea, they told him no, he felt burned and pitched to Palm and the rest is history. Now Apple is to proud to ever admit Rubenstein was right (if he happens to prove himself so in a year or two) and would never merge it on principal alone.
Peter, I feel exactly the same way, which is why I bought the Droid on the day it came out. I would have gotten a Pre if it had been on Verizon and probably would have loved it. But a year later and the maturity of the Android OS seduced me away. It just doesn't seem like the dev community is getting behind it, which is ESSENTIAL now.
BTW, I absolutely love my Droid so far.
BTW, I absolutely love my Droid so far.
I'm taking it off of mine as well, and it frankly has nothing to do with me owning the Droid (which I do, and love). I really love the way WebOS multitasks .. an easy visual representation and easy way to switch between running applications.
However, with the shotty hardware, cruddy keyboard, etc. I just really can't ever see myself buying one without a severe re-design.
However, with the shotty hardware, cruddy keyboard, etc. I just really can't ever see myself buying one without a severe re-design.
Yes I loved the Pre when it was announced but the whole Sprint thing was a buzzkill for me. The Pre has gotten progressively less interesting from there. The Pixi only shakes things up a little bit but the feature losses and smaller screen do that one in for me. They'll need a killer device on Verizon if they want to keep going.
I think the Pixi on multiple carriers might be enough to help Palm out for a little while. I played with the Pixi yesterday and found it to be quite impressive. The slower processor did not seem to be much of a hindrance to me at all, and the keyboard is EVEN better than the Pre's keyboard.
If I could snag a Pixi for cheap somewhere off-contract I would probably use it to replace my Pre (which I love, but the flimsy hardware is a letdown).
If I could snag a Pixi for cheap somewhere off-contract I would probably use it to replace my Pre (which I love, but the flimsy hardware is a letdown).
Yeah I think I'd agree with you there. I mean, all the reviews seem generally really positive so if they can get it over to other carriers (soon, please) that would help. Of course, I'm still and Android guy but Palm will need something to replace the Pre if they really want to heat up the smartphone competition.
*love love love* my pre. It may be lacking in apps, but the apps handle everything I need so far - and the homebrew for it is simply awesome. For instance, I listen to podcasts including gdgt on it via drpodder - which automatically downloads the podcasts on the pre for me. Or I use accuradio/pandora which work fantastically on here. The pre's getting slammed for not having a Facebook client - but really it has two - and friendsflow (my personal fav) now does everything I want in Facebook.
this morning, on the device, I fired up my twitter client, saw peters tweet about this topic, logged into gdgt, and responded via this post - all on my Pre while listening to a podcast.
-mark
this morning, on the device, I fired up my twitter client, saw peters tweet about this topic, logged into gdgt, and responded via this post - all on my Pre while listening to a podcast.
-mark
why does everyone keep slamming sprint? Except for the fact that their phones (for the most part) don't roam in europe, they have a very fast and awesome network. Sprint has got to be the most under-rated networks in the us - and their prices are so much cheaper then at&t or verizon.
btw for what its worth, I'm on my first pre that I purchased at launch, and have not had any hardware issues on it.
btw for what its worth, I'm on my first pre that I purchased at launch, and have not had any hardware issues on it.
I'm with you. Don't understand the pre slamming. I guess because it's not as popular as the other networks it's vogue to hate on.
My guess is that Sprint is getting slammed because they had a horrible customer service in the past. That bad rep is still taunting them. I've been in Sprint for 5 years and I can say that their customer service has made vast improvements over the last couple years. However, before that I had one of the worst customer service experiences; it took over an hour of wait to get a new phone and renew my contract!
They have gotten much better ever since, and the staff is overall very knowledgeable and helpful. They are also getting really good handsets...
It's going to take more time and improved coverage, reliability and network speeds to gain back all those customers they have been losing lately.
They have gotten much better ever since, and the staff is overall very knowledgeable and helpful. They are also getting really good handsets...
It's going to take more time and improved coverage, reliability and network speeds to gain back all those customers they have been losing lately.
I can definitely agree with that. Their customer service was, and can still sometimes be pretty crappy, however I suspect that when it's crappy now, it's crappy on par with the other carriers.
That being said I hardly ever have to contact CS for any issues and when I have, for the most part, they've managed to help to resolve or steer in the right direction.
That being said I hardly ever have to contact CS for any issues and when I have, for the most part, they've managed to help to resolve or steer in the right direction.
Unfortunately for Palm there's going to be pressure on them to produce something amazing again at the next CES or soon after. The competitive landscape has become so much more difficult in the last year. Palm is by far the smallest company in the smartphone market when you look at the amount of capital they have to devote to building their platform.
I think the thing that really upsets me about Palm is that WebOS is probably my favorite mobile OS. I love android, but its just not as intuitive as WebOS. I can't stress how amazing it is to use a phone and just feel like every way in which you interact with it feels natural. This might be a slight exaggeration, but I still think that it is apt. There are a ton of features that are missing from WebOS and the Pre hardware is clearly sub-par; however, I really hope that Palm can find a way to keep WebOS alive.
Yeah, I especially love the way the Pre does multitasking. It just makes so much sense. Sure, in Android I can hold down the Home button for a few seconds and switch apps, but it's not pretty or intuitive. And that's just one feature of many that is more intuitive in WebOS than on my Android phone. I hope that WebOS sticks around for a while even though I'm gonna stick with Android.
I don't understand why gadget fans hate on sprint. They by FAR have the cheapest data/text/voice plans (especially if you're on SERO, etc), and have always been on the forefront of the newest/hottest WinMo (and now android) phones. Their EV-DO Rev A. network is fast and availible in way more places than ATT & T-Mobile's (and maybe verizon's?) 3G networks, and they roam w/ data roaming to Verizon if you're out of network.
There really is nothing wrong with Sprint, except that their customer service used to be horrible. I would never leave Sprint unless there was some incredible tegra handset, etc that they decided not to carry. I won't even switch for the HD2
There really is nothing wrong with Sprint, except that their customer service used to be horrible. I would never leave Sprint unless there was some incredible tegra handset, etc that they decided not to carry. I won't even switch for the HD2
I got a Pre at launch, but recently gave it to my brother and got the Hero. There are things I miss about the Pre (notification method, the gestures, look and feel of the OS), but the Hero has much better build quality and Anroid is so much more customizable. I would still recommend the Pre to anyone that is looking for a smartphone with a great OS, but it just was not right for me.
Regarding Sprint, as others have stated I do not get the hate tech people have for the company. Their prices are great and the coverage is outstanding. I have a friend that switch from Sprint to AT&T to get an iPhone and he always tells me how much he regrets the decision. He is always dropping calls, rarely gets 3G data, and is paying more for less. I just do not get it, Sprint has free mobile to mobile, the lowest priced data plans, and great coverage. Why would you not want that? I think a lot of tech people just parrot what they hear others say without looking at the facts.
Regarding Sprint, as others have stated I do not get the hate tech people have for the company. Their prices are great and the coverage is outstanding. I have a friend that switch from Sprint to AT&T to get an iPhone and he always tells me how much he regrets the decision. He is always dropping calls, rarely gets 3G data, and is paying more for less. I just do not get it, Sprint has free mobile to mobile, the lowest priced data plans, and great coverage. Why would you not want that? I think a lot of tech people just parrot what they hear others say without looking at the facts.
I'm sure I'll miss the Pre as much as I miss my Treo 650. It was a good device when it was the only decent Smart Phone. But Palm needs to shake hands with an Android OS. Stick to what you do well, Palm... Hardware
Just an observation, but Palm was in a comatose state for around 2+ years. They lost a lot of money have been running as a start-up (on VC money) and the PRE is a 1Gen device.
The phones/manufacturers that they are being compared with are all established, global players with resources that Palm may find difficult to match.
They need time and support from their "fans" in order to improve on all aspects.
The phones/manufacturers that they are being compared with are all established, global players with resources that Palm may find difficult to match.
They need time and support from their "fans" in order to improve on all aspects.
Maemo isnt ready for prime-time (v6). Symbian has half the world market share (that's hundreds of millions of people using it). Just because people in the US dont think its shiny enough, why should Nokia drop it?
The problems are with the ui/ux layers and they are already working on it. 2010-12 they release 3 major updates to the OS and everyone again goes "drop xyz for symbian!"
Besides if Nokia does buy palm, it will be because of the engineers and relations with the US providers.
The problems are with the ui/ux layers and they are already working on it. 2010-12 they release 3 major updates to the OS and everyone again goes "drop xyz for symbian!"
Besides if Nokia does buy palm, it will be because of the engineers and relations with the US providers.
I also don't get why people have turned on palm. The pre is far better in terms of usability than any winmo phone on the market. .let's face it, if a manufactureer is doing everything it can to cover up your OS, you're pretty much done. Android is okay, but until the droid the hardware has been less than inspiring. The pre does what I need it to do, make calls, send text, emai and mms, and it's pretty darn good at web surfing.
as for sprint, I'm almost never without coverage and I got a great rate plan. I used to work for tmobile, that coverage was a joke and still is, but you never hear people raging on them. I've had at&t and wasn't all that impressed with the coverage or the prices. (don't have any experience with verizn, but doubt its worth the extra cost.
as for build quality, my pre survived a car accident that I had this past summer in which it bounced all over the interior. Grabbed it off the floor and made a phone call when I regained consciousness. Bought at launch and still going strong.
as for sprint, I'm almost never without coverage and I got a great rate plan. I used to work for tmobile, that coverage was a joke and still is, but you never hear people raging on them. I've had at&t and wasn't all that impressed with the coverage or the prices. (don't have any experience with verizn, but doubt its worth the extra cost.
as for build quality, my pre survived a car accident that I had this past summer in which it bounced all over the interior. Grabbed it off the floor and made a phone call when I regained consciousness. Bought at launch and still going strong.
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