Why?! Why is everyone so clingy to number pads? I gave up my attached number pad when I started using diNovo keyboards and I've never really looked back. The extra desk real estate you get by cutting down on the width of the keyboard makes a huge difference. Some people might say, "Well, on a 17" laptop, the width is a given, so why not use the extra space for a number pad?" To start out with, it ruins the design! the keyboard is now off-centered and, more importantly, the touch pad is off-centered. If you center yourself on the keyboard, then you're off-centered to the screen; if you center yourself on the screen, then you're off-centered to the keyboard; if they moved the touch pad to the center of the screen, your right wrist would probably interfere with the touch pad all the time.
The fact is that the vast majority of people do not user the number pad nearly enough to justify it being there and ruining the experience for everyone. I could go on forever about windows laptop design fails, but /rant
Discussion about
Number pads and Windows laptop designs...
As you say, it's probably unnecessary on a low-end consumer machine such as the Macbook Pros, etc.
With actually 'pro' machines such as mobile workstations, the situation is a little different. The number pad actually comes in useful.
On some 17-inch consumer machines, the keyboards can be a carry-over from 'pro' machines. On others, it may be there just for the sake of it.
With actually 'pro' machines such as mobile workstations, the situation is a little different. The number pad actually comes in useful.
On some 17-inch consumer machines, the keyboards can be a carry-over from 'pro' machines. On others, it may be there just for the sake of it.
So gamers and pros the tow groups that demand performance hardware including a numberpad.
I wouldn't call the Macbook Pro low end. It is consumer (Something most tech bloggers and many "creative professionals" don't realize. But its not low end especially the latest models with Core 2010 processors and switchable graphics costing more than most consumers are willing to spend on a laptop.
I wouldn't call the Macbook Pro low end. It is consumer (Something most tech bloggers and many "creative professionals" don't realize. But its not low end especially the latest models with Core 2010 processors and switchable graphics costing more than most consumers are willing to spend on a laptop.
Just to be clear, I'm talking about consumer laptops. If you look at most consumer laptops (large), you have to struggle to find one without a number pad, which makes no sense to me. Business laptops are a separate entity entirely.
Also, for the random times when you need to pound out a spreadsheet or something, there is always external number pads. I just don't think most people ever touch the number pad, yet everyone is affected by the poor design.
Also, for the random times when you need to pound out a spreadsheet or something, there is always external number pads. I just don't think most people ever touch the number pad, yet everyone is affected by the poor design.
"Also, for the random times when you need to pound out a spreadsheet or something, there is always external number pads."
I hope you understand how wrong you sound. People who actually need to enter numbers more than once or twice a day still use and love number pads.
Don't get me wrong, I hate that so many laptops are pushing the trackpads off to the left nowadays, but the only exception I have for that is on large laptops with numberpads, because it is the only place were it actually works.
I hope you understand how wrong you sound. People who actually need to enter numbers more than once or twice a day still use and love number pads.
Don't get me wrong, I hate that so many laptops are pushing the trackpads off to the left nowadays, but the only exception I have for that is on large laptops with numberpads, because it is the only place were it actually works.
I completely agree with you! All you haters, just hear me out and don't get your panties all in a twist (as we say "down South"). This is a legitimate issue for some people, and I hope that laptop designers will soon figure this out, and at least provide a few options for those who can't use the off-center keyboards.
At first I thought it was a great idea to have the number pad! I work with numbers and spreadsheets a lot, and always have the number pad "on" when I'm at my desktop pc at work. Plus, I can touch type (type w/o looking) w/ the number pad, but still have to look at the keys when typing numbers from the top of the keyboard. I even have a USB number pad that I used with my older laptop, but it was a bit of a hassle and I wished so much for a laptop with a number pad!
However - I developed a Horrible problem with pain in my right shoulder and right elbow from using a laptops with an off-center keyboard (which is pretty much on All of the larger laptops now)! This was completely unexpected, and it took me a while to figure out what was causing my problem. With my desktop setup at work, if I'm just going to be using the letter keys for a while, I usually slide my keyboard to the right, making the letter keys centered under the monitor. I just did this unconsciously, but it turns out this is what's recommended by ergonomics experts, so you'll be typing in the "neutral position" that they recommend for good ergonomics. When I need the number pad for just a second or two, it's no problem for me to reach over to the right to type in numbers. If I'm going to use the number pad a lot, I'll just slide the keyboard to the left so the number pad is closer to the center of my "neutral position" in relation to the monitor.
But there's no practical option like this with a laptop. Sure, you could slide the keyboard over to the right, but then the monitor is off-center. So you'd probably end up leaning off to the right w/o noticing, causing other ergonomic problems. Maybe there's some way to shrink the widescreen display to a 4:3 ratio, and leave the right side of the monitor as empty black space.
I totally get the fact that the laptop designers probably figured - "Hey, might as well put a number pad to fill up the space in all these widescreen laptops". But at least for me, this did not turn out to be a good thing. This all may sound stupid to you, if you have no problem with the off-center keyboard. But I've heard from several people having similar elbow and shoulder problems like mine. So there are going to be a certain number of people (it's early days to know how many) who really can't use these laptops with the new keyboard configuration. If you're looking for a laptop 15" or bigger, you're pretty much out of luck for finding a centered keyboard.
Note: The exception to this rule is with Mac's. So far virtually all of the Mac's still have the centered keyboard. If you can afford a Mac (which I can't), you might want to run out and get one before they change their design, too!
Maybe they'll start making super-wide laptops, which could fit a centered keyboard, plus a number pad on the right, Plus some miscellaneous keys on the left. Maybe an array of keys for controlling volume/display/video-playback/etc.,? Perhaps a cup-holder? :). I know it would look weird to have a bunch of empty space off to the left. But I also wonder if more and more people are going to have this type of elbow and shoulder problem with the off-center keyboards.
One solution might be to have a side-to-side sliding monitor, so you can center the monitor over whatever typing position you use the most? I realize those are just making more things that can ultimately break. Another easier solution would be to keep making a few models of laptops without a number pad, for those who have trouble w/ off-center keyboards.
If you have read all the way down to the bottom of this very long message, thank you for "listening". ;)
At first I thought it was a great idea to have the number pad! I work with numbers and spreadsheets a lot, and always have the number pad "on" when I'm at my desktop pc at work. Plus, I can touch type (type w/o looking) w/ the number pad, but still have to look at the keys when typing numbers from the top of the keyboard. I even have a USB number pad that I used with my older laptop, but it was a bit of a hassle and I wished so much for a laptop with a number pad!
However - I developed a Horrible problem with pain in my right shoulder and right elbow from using a laptops with an off-center keyboard (which is pretty much on All of the larger laptops now)! This was completely unexpected, and it took me a while to figure out what was causing my problem. With my desktop setup at work, if I'm just going to be using the letter keys for a while, I usually slide my keyboard to the right, making the letter keys centered under the monitor. I just did this unconsciously, but it turns out this is what's recommended by ergonomics experts, so you'll be typing in the "neutral position" that they recommend for good ergonomics. When I need the number pad for just a second or two, it's no problem for me to reach over to the right to type in numbers. If I'm going to use the number pad a lot, I'll just slide the keyboard to the left so the number pad is closer to the center of my "neutral position" in relation to the monitor.
But there's no practical option like this with a laptop. Sure, you could slide the keyboard over to the right, but then the monitor is off-center. So you'd probably end up leaning off to the right w/o noticing, causing other ergonomic problems. Maybe there's some way to shrink the widescreen display to a 4:3 ratio, and leave the right side of the monitor as empty black space.
I totally get the fact that the laptop designers probably figured - "Hey, might as well put a number pad to fill up the space in all these widescreen laptops". But at least for me, this did not turn out to be a good thing. This all may sound stupid to you, if you have no problem with the off-center keyboard. But I've heard from several people having similar elbow and shoulder problems like mine. So there are going to be a certain number of people (it's early days to know how many) who really can't use these laptops with the new keyboard configuration. If you're looking for a laptop 15" or bigger, you're pretty much out of luck for finding a centered keyboard.
Note: The exception to this rule is with Mac's. So far virtually all of the Mac's still have the centered keyboard. If you can afford a Mac (which I can't), you might want to run out and get one before they change their design, too!
Maybe they'll start making super-wide laptops, which could fit a centered keyboard, plus a number pad on the right, Plus some miscellaneous keys on the left. Maybe an array of keys for controlling volume/display/video-playback/etc.,? Perhaps a cup-holder? :). I know it would look weird to have a bunch of empty space off to the left. But I also wonder if more and more people are going to have this type of elbow and shoulder problem with the off-center keyboards.
One solution might be to have a side-to-side sliding monitor, so you can center the monitor over whatever typing position you use the most? I realize those are just making more things that can ultimately break. Another easier solution would be to keep making a few models of laptops without a number pad, for those who have trouble w/ off-center keyboards.
If you have read all the way down to the bottom of this very long message, thank you for "listening". ;)
I have to say the centering issue is probably imaginary - and I notice you don't own a notebook with a number pad.
I've just looked at all my *desktop* setups in my immediate vicinity and made an interesting discovery, that I centre my keyboard as a whole on the screen, i.e. not the non-number-pad area. I've got on fine with all the HP / Dell / etc mobile workstations / Dell mobile gaming monstrosities with the number pad.
I've just looked at all my *desktop* setups in my immediate vicinity and made an interesting discovery, that I centre my keyboard as a whole on the screen, i.e. not the non-number-pad area. I've got on fine with all the HP / Dell / etc mobile workstations / Dell mobile gaming monstrosities with the number pad.
