As you've probably heard, Apple announced this Monday that for the third time since 2004 Steve Jobs would be taking a health-related leave of absence. This was met with some serious concern, and rightly so. The first time Steve took leave was in 2004 during his storied bout with pancreatic cancer (one of the most deadly forms of the disease, but in his case ultimately curable); the second was in 2009 for a liver transplant. (Fortune also published a piece this week revealing for the first time that in 2009 Steve also received treatment in Switzerland for neuroendocrine cancer.) Not small stuff.
Farhad Manjoo wrote a piece over at Slate (www.slate.com/id/2281453/pagenum/all/ ) predicting Steve might also take this opportunity to go out on a high note, and that he won't be coming back because he's "been stunningly successful in achieving [his long-held] vision. And now he's probably done. ... What more is there left for Jobs to do?" That reminded me of my read on things the last time Steve took leave, and I predicted that when he pulled through whatever was ailing him (later revealed to be the liver transplant), the brevity of life fresh in his mind, it seemed a good moment to go do some living.
After all, the company had been posting great numbers and nailing launches in his absence; Apple's "deep bench of leadership," as the NY Times calls it (www.nytimes.com/2011/01/18/technology/18cook.html ), seemed fairly well proven. Looking back, I'd say I read him all wrong in that situation, and I think it's pretty clear by now there's really nowhere else that Steve Jobs would rather be than at Apple "inventing the future" (as he likes to quote Alan Kay).
Still, whatever Steve decides to do (or not), the ever-present worries about Apple's succession planning seem to miss the point. Yes, he is a notorious micromanager obsessed with even the finest details of his company's products, but the greatest thing Steve created at Apple wasn't any product you or I can buy. It was the culture and mindset that's enabled it to create market-changing product after product. It's not easy for technology companies to learn how to edit, and among the geekier Steve is chided for being a designer, and not a true engineer (as if that's a pejorative). But as the man says, "In many ways, it's the things that are not there that we are most proud of." Perhaps more important than what Apple has learned to make is what it's learned to ignore or leave out.
It's easy to see the cause for concern, though: the last time Steve truly left the building in 1985, Apple began its steady slide to the precipice of bankruptcy -- right up until his return in 1997. So for many, the idea of Apple without Steve conjures some pretty dark memories of technological malaise, directionless products, and $4 stock prices. But the reality is that Steve hasn't been holding Apple back from an inevitable slide back to the mediocrity of Scully's Apple -- he's created what is essentially a new company with an entirely new culture and set of practices. Imagining a post-Steve Apple seems to invite a false choice between the risk of a new direction and the impossibility of replacing him. The reality is that Apple has grown up, and in the process learned to live up to the idea of Steve.
In the old Engadget days Peter and I used to run a cheeky series of Apple-predictions themed posts entitled "What Would Steve Jobs Do?" As time rolls on it's actually become pretty hard not to imagine Apple employees sweating endlessly over the implications of that very question. It can be pretty hard to tell where Steve Jobs ends and Apple ends, so intertwined are their histories, but it's short-sighted and reductive to believe a company of 50,000 people is merely the Steve show. At the same time, for those people at Apple it's also probably not unfair to say that Steve has come to represent an idea or philosophy of product design.
So when you think about it, it actually kind of makes sense why Apple -- now the second wealthiest company in the country -- has no formal succession plan for its CEO. Succession has become endemic. For the nearly fifteen years since his return, Steve's worked to prepare Apple to avoid the mistakes of the past, stock leadership and board members loyal to his way of thinking and doing business, show the bad apples the door, and demonstrating to everyone at the company how the company ought to operate with or without him.
I think at this point it's probably safe to say that the plan has worked, because if it hadn't there would be simply no way Apple could function at the speed, scale, and depth that it does today. And whether investors like it or not, there's an inevitability to the fact that sooner or later someone else will be the CEO of Apple, someone with their own ideas and vision for the company -- but they'll always be living in Steve's house.
So as much as we're all rooting for Steve's recovery, I'm certainly not losing any sleep over the idea that maybe his next step will be to finally don the gold watch and take a seat on the sidelines. Just don't count on it quite yet.
Originally published in the gdgt newsletter, sign up at gdgt.com/newsletter/
Discussion about
Living in Steve's House
I could not have said it better myself...I mean it, I could not. Fabulous commentary, Ryan!
What strikes me the most is your thought about the culture that Steve has created inside Apple, but I also feel that he defined, maybe even redefined, what it means to be a CEO in the fast-moving Tech world. The sheer idea that you can effectively micro-manage a company that large takes an extraordinary person. And he is.
What strikes me the most is your thought about the culture that Steve has created inside Apple, but I also feel that he defined, maybe even redefined, what it means to be a CEO in the fast-moving Tech world. The sheer idea that you can effectively micro-manage a company that large takes an extraordinary person. And he is.
I don't doubt the Apple execs' ability to run the company once Steve is no longer there, but I am always amused thinking about what he will think of their future products if he ever decides to call it quits. I can just see him picking up a new iPad or iPhone (free of charge, naturally) and scrutinizing every detail of it. I'm sure there will be times when he will think, "man, if only I had been there we could have done this detail differently and the product would have come out better."
Then again, I doubt he would have to wait to see a final product before giving him feedback. I'm sure the team will share their designs with him prior to release.
Then again, I doubt he would have to wait to see a final product before giving him feedback. I'm sure the team will share their designs with him prior to release.
It's nice to read a take on this that isn't full of doom and gloom.
However, although it's true that his impact on the company has been substantial enough to affect Apple even without his presence day-to-day, it's perfectly conceivable that he's just taking some time off to rest. What he's been through is bound to leave his body brittle (in many ways) and perhaps he just needs to take some time off to get some R&R and focus on diet and exercise a little in the comfort of his own home and family.
However, although it's true that his impact on the company has been substantial enough to affect Apple even without his presence day-to-day, it's perfectly conceivable that he's just taking some time off to rest. What he's been through is bound to leave his body brittle (in many ways) and perhaps he just needs to take some time off to get some R&R and focus on diet and exercise a little in the comfort of his own home and family.
Nice post Ryan, one little quibble though: you correctly note that pancreatic cancer is one of the more deadly "form of the disease" -- however this might cause some confusion due the fact that the variety of pancreatic cancer that Mr. Jobs suffers from is an exceptionally rare form that is relatively treatable, with a 55-60% 5-year survival rate (compared with 5% with most other forms).
Of course, we're well beyond that 5-year stretch now. Steve has proven in more ways than one that he is a tenacious fighter
Of course, we're well beyond that 5-year stretch now. Steve has proven in more ways than one that he is a tenacious fighter
Note from a physician: in general terms, you are right about his CA, which is *not* the uniformly deadly and far more common adenocarcinoma. However, he has already gotten to the point of metastases to the liver requiring a liver transplant, which puts him, even for his type of tumor, in a very morbid group.Happy talk is not honest medicine.
Ryan, one thing you left out that I'd like to know your opinion on is Steve's ability to get big deals done such as the original AT&T iPhone plan with a $20/mo unlimited data and Visual Voicemail (something Verizon still charges for to this day). Or how about the iPad cellular options; Being able to turn the connection on/off at your leisure with no activation fee or carrier involvement at all. The fact they got a US carrier, one of the most customer hostile industries I know of, to agree to these terms is amazing to me.
Do you think there are other execs in Apple currently that can land these types of deals that it seems few other companies can get?
Do you think there are other execs in Apple currently that can land these types of deals that it seems few other companies can get?
I believe all the pundits who think Steve is going away in the near-term are seriously off the mark and don't understand Mr. Jobs (or Apple) as well as they think they do.
Steve Jobs will unquestionably stay involved with Apple Inc. for as long as possible. And to the greatest level of involvement that his health allows. This man is more passionate about Apple -- and if not the corporate entity, then at least the "mission" the company is on, "to make great products" -- than most of us can imagine.
I suspect his current sabbatical is to visit yet another "world class" treatment facility, to deal with another complication to his health (such as the resurgence of a past ailment).
Even if these pundits have trouble agreeing with me, I believe all the proof they need comes in the form of the company not naming Mr. Cook as interim-CEO during this time -- as was done a year ago. That in itself tells us all we need to know: Steve has every intention of returning at the earliest opportunity.
Though he speaks zilch about his private life, Jobs appears to have been able to balance his professional and personal responsibilities very well for the past several decades (as indicated by a wife who hasn't left him and a seemingly healthy relationship with his kids). There's no reason he can't maintain that balance into the future, and continue to devote lots of time to Apple.
That is, after he gets this over this latest set of health hurdles. Because you know he would not take a step back like this unless his ailments were really kicking his ass. There is no doubt in my mind that this man works very hard and intends on doing so as long as he can. But right now, it's just not possible for him to balance all the roles in his life -- CEO of a leading tech company, Disney board member, Husband, Father. And none of us would be able to either, given the same circumstances and a body that is failing us.
That said, I'm certainly in agreement with Ryan, that Apple's culture has changed since Mr. Jobs' return, and that the company will sustain on a successful path following his absence. And I have no trouble believing that the company could even potentially do more than sustain in his absence -- likely continuing the same degree of upward trajectory (in both public opinion and stock price) after the departure of Steve and achieving even greater success.
But I think we're still a ways away from finding out. Because Steve will be back -- and I'm betting it will be in time for the launch of iPhone 5. So all those people who are saying "He must have achieved all that he has set out to, at this point, so why not step back," I say that you have greatly underestimated the passion that Steve Jobs has for Apple.
And I'm sure several who read my comments will think that I'm just another member of The Church of Steve. In fact nothing could be further from the truth. I probably would not enjoy a conversation with the man and I probably wouldn't be able to work with him, because of incompatible management styles. Further, I see many flaws in Apple's choices over the last 10 years. So, by no means, do I think Steve Jobs is a flawless leader.
Yet I have incredible respect for what he's done with this company -- taking it from a company that was considered to be on deathwatch, to the most profitable tech company in the world. Few people could do that. And even fewer could do it for 10 years straight.
And if I, as an Apple outsider (despite my living being tied to Apple's products), have that level of respect for the man and his methods, imagine the respect among those inside the company. So, even when he's gone, the leaders inside Apple will unquestionably make decisions with consideration of Steve's legacy, yet informing their choices with their own skill and creativity.
So, when the day does come, for Jobs to step back and cease being involved with Apple's decision making, the culture of "What would Steve do" will unquestionably continue to pervade the company. And for a good long while, I suspect.
Combine that with the huge number of incredibly talented people at the company and I believe we'll see Apple maintain (for many years) a respected role in the tech industry that makes competitors insanely jealous and investors grind their hands.
Steve Jobs will unquestionably stay involved with Apple Inc. for as long as possible. And to the greatest level of involvement that his health allows. This man is more passionate about Apple -- and if not the corporate entity, then at least the "mission" the company is on, "to make great products" -- than most of us can imagine.
I suspect his current sabbatical is to visit yet another "world class" treatment facility, to deal with another complication to his health (such as the resurgence of a past ailment).
Even if these pundits have trouble agreeing with me, I believe all the proof they need comes in the form of the company not naming Mr. Cook as interim-CEO during this time -- as was done a year ago. That in itself tells us all we need to know: Steve has every intention of returning at the earliest opportunity.
Though he speaks zilch about his private life, Jobs appears to have been able to balance his professional and personal responsibilities very well for the past several decades (as indicated by a wife who hasn't left him and a seemingly healthy relationship with his kids). There's no reason he can't maintain that balance into the future, and continue to devote lots of time to Apple.
That is, after he gets this over this latest set of health hurdles. Because you know he would not take a step back like this unless his ailments were really kicking his ass. There is no doubt in my mind that this man works very hard and intends on doing so as long as he can. But right now, it's just not possible for him to balance all the roles in his life -- CEO of a leading tech company, Disney board member, Husband, Father. And none of us would be able to either, given the same circumstances and a body that is failing us.
That said, I'm certainly in agreement with Ryan, that Apple's culture has changed since Mr. Jobs' return, and that the company will sustain on a successful path following his absence. And I have no trouble believing that the company could even potentially do more than sustain in his absence -- likely continuing the same degree of upward trajectory (in both public opinion and stock price) after the departure of Steve and achieving even greater success.
But I think we're still a ways away from finding out. Because Steve will be back -- and I'm betting it will be in time for the launch of iPhone 5. So all those people who are saying "He must have achieved all that he has set out to, at this point, so why not step back," I say that you have greatly underestimated the passion that Steve Jobs has for Apple.
And I'm sure several who read my comments will think that I'm just another member of The Church of Steve. In fact nothing could be further from the truth. I probably would not enjoy a conversation with the man and I probably wouldn't be able to work with him, because of incompatible management styles. Further, I see many flaws in Apple's choices over the last 10 years. So, by no means, do I think Steve Jobs is a flawless leader.
Yet I have incredible respect for what he's done with this company -- taking it from a company that was considered to be on deathwatch, to the most profitable tech company in the world. Few people could do that. And even fewer could do it for 10 years straight.
And if I, as an Apple outsider (despite my living being tied to Apple's products), have that level of respect for the man and his methods, imagine the respect among those inside the company. So, even when he's gone, the leaders inside Apple will unquestionably make decisions with consideration of Steve's legacy, yet informing their choices with their own skill and creativity.
So, when the day does come, for Jobs to step back and cease being involved with Apple's decision making, the culture of "What would Steve do" will unquestionably continue to pervade the company. And for a good long while, I suspect.
Combine that with the huge number of incredibly talented people at the company and I believe we'll see Apple maintain (for many years) a respected role in the tech industry that makes competitors insanely jealous and investors grind their hands.
While I do agree that Apple is a different company now, it's difficult not to assume that when Steve Jobs leaves, their choice of a new CEO will make a great deal of difference. Investors are just worried that the new CEO won't be as good (in their eyes) as The Steve.
I'd like to think that without Jobs, Apple would change to be a better team player within the industry and yet keep their perfectionism and culture of innovation, but that's not what investors want. Investors want a quick ROI and Steve delivers exactly that, even (in my view) at the cost of their long-term success.
I'd like to think that without Jobs, Apple would change to be a better team player within the industry and yet keep their perfectionism and culture of innovation, but that's not what investors want. Investors want a quick ROI and Steve delivers exactly that, even (in my view) at the cost of their long-term success.
I usually have hard time reading these commentaries. I usually start reading the gdgt newsletter almost immediately when I get one but more often than not I find myself being pissed halfway through. I either perceive the text as being too long, too bulshitty (sic) or too serious for its own good.
This is either because it is so, or because I'm a jerk. If I was you, I would bet it's the latter. As I am me, I will fight to prove it is the former (and would be wrong).
THAT said, this one is a flawless piece of poetry. Everything is there, from the buildup via flashbacks & introspective, through slightly romanticized moments to a well delivered point.
Bravo sir!
This is either because it is so, or because I'm a jerk. If I was you, I would bet it's the latter. As I am me, I will fight to prove it is the former (and would be wrong).
THAT said, this one is a flawless piece of poetry. Everything is there, from the buildup via flashbacks & introspective, through slightly romanticized moments to a well delivered point.
Bravo sir!
As a scientist, I am not awed by Jobs' technical expertise or ability. But as a business manager, he may be superior to John D. Rockefeller. His disdain for high (intellectual) standards and cynical exploitation of "simplicity" is very damaging - the walled garden/hyper control methodology is both exploitative and profitable. The (above average) masses want to drink the Kool Aid.
I find it ironic, doing a Lucy $.05 psychiatry move, that Steve can control every square micron of the interface of everything, but he cannot control the cancer that is killing him in short order. It is very sad and understandable. Sorry to be so harsh, but he is head of a publicly traded company, and he gave up his privacy in the process.
I find it ironic, doing a Lucy $.05 psychiatry move, that Steve can control every square micron of the interface of everything, but he cannot control the cancer that is killing him in short order. It is very sad and understandable. Sorry to be so harsh, but he is head of a publicly traded company, and he gave up his privacy in the process.
I do agree with the first paragraph, with the proviso of (above average) = (likes to / aspires to believe they are above average). If only you hadn't written the second.
Yes you are quite harsh, in fact you mirror scientists thinking of the 1760's era in the UK. Back then, a carpenter by the name of John Harrison built the first chronometer to solve how sailors could determine their position of Longitude while at sea. Mr. Harrison himself did not have the 'formal' education you hold as a scientist in such popous esteem and fought a lifetime to be recognised by the scientifc community of the day. The scientific community had such a large ego, they could not stand to see a mere carpenter solve the most technically challenging problems of that era. Perhaps your thinking might evolve to be a bit more humane and more accepting of the way in which people impact the world in a good and decent way.
Steve's undoubtedly done some good things for the industry, but I'll be happy once he's out of the picture. I wish him pain and suffering because I think he's a pretentious douche, but health-wise I wish him well and hope he lives to a ripe old age. I just want to see what Apple can be without him.
I'm *hoping* it will be a company I can stop loathing for their obsessiveness over secrecy and closed systems. I still don't understand how conscientious geeks and computer scientists can encourage Apple's view of the world. Under Jobs, they've continually moved us towards censored, centralized control, and encouraged a locked down user experience. Ease of use is one thing - creating devices that "just work" by removing user choice and pushing users into unthinking drones is not helpful!
Maybe I'm just too much of a Google fanboy and I can't appreciate Apple's approach, but an Apple without Jobs, that's focused on elegant design, simplicity while still empowering users, and more focus on "openness" is a company I can get behind. And I don't give a rats ass what the stock market says right now either...just because they're selling well, it doesn't mean they're pushing computing in a healthy direction.
I'm *hoping* it will be a company I can stop loathing for their obsessiveness over secrecy and closed systems. I still don't understand how conscientious geeks and computer scientists can encourage Apple's view of the world. Under Jobs, they've continually moved us towards censored, centralized control, and encouraged a locked down user experience. Ease of use is one thing - creating devices that "just work" by removing user choice and pushing users into unthinking drones is not helpful!
Maybe I'm just too much of a Google fanboy and I can't appreciate Apple's approach, but an Apple without Jobs, that's focused on elegant design, simplicity while still empowering users, and more focus on "openness" is a company I can get behind. And I don't give a rats ass what the stock market says right now either...just because they're selling well, it doesn't mean they're pushing computing in a healthy direction.
Holy cow, I don't think you being too much of a Google fanboy has anything to do with it. You sound like a pretty miserable person! I mean, I don't even know where to start: you say Apple has done some good things for the industry, but then end with "they aren't pushing computing in a healthy direction." Plus, "I hope he lives to a ripe old age" and at the same time you wish pain and suffering on him? Wow, just wow.
Obviously, you have very strong feelings about Apple (no matter how crazy they sound), and I'm glad you want to share your thoughts on gdgt, but damn. I don't think you'll find many people here are going to share your sentiment.
Obviously, you have very strong feelings about Apple (no matter how crazy they sound), and I'm glad you want to share your thoughts on gdgt, but damn. I don't think you'll find many people here are going to share your sentiment.
Ok, let me clarify. :) Sick or not, I dislike Steve Jobs for his personality and the way he conducts business. He is interested solely in Apple's success, with no regard for the health of the industry as a whole. He very clearly time again makes decisions against the interest of his devoted customers. He chooses to withhold features from Apple products to accelerate product cycles. He binds their products to an App platform that many people can't stand (iTunes). I can go on and on.
I do have to say though, I'm a little shocked more Gdgt readers aren't posting similar thoughts...I never got the feeling (until now) that you guys are so fully immersed in the reality distortion field. ;-)
I'm actually not miserable, but Apple does irritate the #@%$ out of me. =P I've just spent a lot of time around doctors and execs who see an iPad commercial and think they can just go out and buy one and start using it to look at patient vitals and use Apple devices on corporate systems. I look at things from more of an IT perspective most of the time, and Apple's just never been very good in that respect.
I do have to say though, I'm a little shocked more Gdgt readers aren't posting similar thoughts...I never got the feeling (until now) that you guys are so fully immersed in the reality distortion field. ;-)
I'm actually not miserable, but Apple does irritate the #@%$ out of me. =P I've just spent a lot of time around doctors and execs who see an iPad commercial and think they can just go out and buy one and start using it to look at patient vitals and use Apple devices on corporate systems. I look at things from more of an IT perspective most of the time, and Apple's just never been very good in that respect.
From an IT perspective I see iPads as superior to anything *similar* that Microsoft has ever made. I mean it's already locked down out of the box, has extremely remote chances of ever getting a virus that can actually do any damage, has oodles of software that never needs to be repeatedly reconfigured, and on top of it all, it's actually enjoyable for end users to use.
It basically doesn't need IT involvement at all, whereas every Microsoft product requires constant management.
It basically doesn't need IT involvement at all, whereas every Microsoft product requires constant management.
I'm quite confused with this weird propensity for anti-Apple folks to paint Apple users as some kind of unthinking, unintelligent, herd of lemmings.
Chances are, many popular sites you use and rely on around the Internet were designed by top engineers, designers, and other people using or working on Apple products and who also have Apple handsets. The fact that people like to keep hawking the above stereotype is truly baffling.
Best wishes to Steve -- his devotion to design and user experience haven't just created a passionate culture within his own company, he's created a passionate and dedicated culture with his consumers, who in turn, apply those same principles and philosophies to their own jobs, projects, or hobbies.
Chances are, many popular sites you use and rely on around the Internet were designed by top engineers, designers, and other people using or working on Apple products and who also have Apple handsets. The fact that people like to keep hawking the above stereotype is truly baffling.
Best wishes to Steve -- his devotion to design and user experience haven't just created a passionate culture within his own company, he's created a passionate and dedicated culture with his consumers, who in turn, apply those same principles and philosophies to their own jobs, projects, or hobbies.
This way of looking at things hasn't changed a bit; yesterday they were self-professed Microsoft fanboys, today they're Google fanboys, and tomorrow they'll be fanboys of something else they feel is appropriately anti-Apple. The only common thread among people with this outlook of the technology industry is propensity for resentment, and Apple seems to do a pretty good job of polarizing technology enthusiasts of this personality type. Or at least they used to -- most technology enthusiasts I know seem to have gone Mac. But that's another story for another day.
The good news is, in real life these petty quibbles don't really matter if you're Apple -- people buy products because they're good (or at least because people perceive them to be good), not because they care one way or another about the company's executive leadership. Ask any mainstream consumer (i.e. the people spending the majority of the money out there in the market), I'd be pretty surprised if many had anything more than a cursorily formed opinion about Jobs, Apple's secrecy and so-called "closed systems," "centralized control," or much else.
The good news is, in real life these petty quibbles don't really matter if you're Apple -- people buy products because they're good (or at least because people perceive them to be good), not because they care one way or another about the company's executive leadership. Ask any mainstream consumer (i.e. the people spending the majority of the money out there in the market), I'd be pretty surprised if many had anything more than a cursorily formed opinion about Jobs, Apple's secrecy and so-called "closed systems," "centralized control," or much else.
Your commentary on Steve Jobs and Apple in general is superb, articulate, honest and respectful. I'm extremely impressed with fact your content was aimed at Steve, the man - and didn't make the center focus on the financial impact to Apple. Whatever happens to Apple will happen. The impact to all of us transitioning to a world without Steve will be much harder to bare.
I think Steve and Apple together have given the rest of us a guideline. Sometimes frustrating. Often clear and simple. Rarely if ever thoughtless. Those who react badly to Apple's practices may simply be jealous or don't understand the idea of how important it is to deliver a near-flawless product, over one that has every feature you can imagine, but really doesn't work all that well.
As a technocrat, I've often wished for this or that in an Apple product, but always enjoyed the good so much, I recognized I'd be foolish to jump ship. Their products are just usable. Period. A tool, and less of a career to understand or use.
I believe the real success of a business is much easier and well founded if won through attraction rather than promotion. And Apple, through Steve Jobs' leadership has always exemplified that practice.
And their recent successes and sales figures follow that.
I think Steve and Apple together have given the rest of us a guideline. Sometimes frustrating. Often clear and simple. Rarely if ever thoughtless. Those who react badly to Apple's practices may simply be jealous or don't understand the idea of how important it is to deliver a near-flawless product, over one that has every feature you can imagine, but really doesn't work all that well.
As a technocrat, I've often wished for this or that in an Apple product, but always enjoyed the good so much, I recognized I'd be foolish to jump ship. Their products are just usable. Period. A tool, and less of a career to understand or use.
I believe the real success of a business is much easier and well founded if won through attraction rather than promotion. And Apple, through Steve Jobs' leadership has always exemplified that practice.
And their recent successes and sales figures follow that.
"I'd be pretty surprised if many had anything more than a cursorily formed opinion about Jobs, Apple's secrecy and so-called "closed systems," "centralized control," or much else."
Exactly the problem!!! I'd hope you of all people would see that, Ryan. Altho last time I think I saw you on TWiT I caught myself thinking, "What the hell is he talking about?" =) I'm just genuinely concerned that Apple encourages the attitude that you shouldn't have to (or even want to) try to understand how your computer works. It's the blind consumer mentality that's turning us into an Idiocracy. Same thing goes for our cars...and I'm horrible at auto maintenance, but I try to understand at least so I can be useful when talking to a mechanic. Those things *should* matter to people - where we spend our money is a reflection of our ideals.
I think you guys forget sometimes that you live in the Valley/Bay Area bubble. Perfect example - a few weeks ago I was in a meeting with some reps from a Palo Alto based company and a room full of systems engineers and IT managers. Everyone in the room had Dell/HP PCs, except the two marketing guys running Apple laptops. The Apple users I know tend to focus more on "the show" and ignore the substance. Just like The Steve.
Exactly the problem!!! I'd hope you of all people would see that, Ryan. Altho last time I think I saw you on TWiT I caught myself thinking, "What the hell is he talking about?" =) I'm just genuinely concerned that Apple encourages the attitude that you shouldn't have to (or even want to) try to understand how your computer works. It's the blind consumer mentality that's turning us into an Idiocracy. Same thing goes for our cars...and I'm horrible at auto maintenance, but I try to understand at least so I can be useful when talking to a mechanic. Those things *should* matter to people - where we spend our money is a reflection of our ideals.
I think you guys forget sometimes that you live in the Valley/Bay Area bubble. Perfect example - a few weeks ago I was in a meeting with some reps from a Palo Alto based company and a room full of systems engineers and IT managers. Everyone in the room had Dell/HP PCs, except the two marketing guys running Apple laptops. The Apple users I know tend to focus more on "the show" and ignore the substance. Just like The Steve.
Why should the general public need to understand the sublevels of those things anymore than they need to understand the sublevels of dentistry, medicine, plumbing, HVAC, psychiatry, sales and marketing, etc?
No one has time to be the master of every domain, so we choose our battles and let other professionals handle what they choose to be good at in life. That seems to me like an excellent way to maximize the short time we all have.
No one has time to be the master of every domain, so we choose our battles and let other professionals handle what they choose to be good at in life. That seems to me like an excellent way to maximize the short time we all have.
Threadjacking aside...everyone has their likes and dislikes for one reason or another. Talking to a co-worker today, I think it comes down to the, "I just want it to work" mentality vs the hacker/tinker/engineer-ish mind-set. I have a lot of friends who want to be able to do what they want with their devices without Apple telling them how they're allowed to do it. And jailbreaking doesn't count - but if Apple would just legitimize root access/jailbreaking and give the power users control over their experience...they'd get much more respect from the Apple dis-avowers and lose a lot of the stigma.
I agree that a lot of purchases come down to the "I just want it to work" vs "the Hacker/tinker gadget nerd" but I think you lean towards a IT worker mind set.
The just want it to work crowd include people like my mum who doesn't care about every option under the sun. Generally this type of consumer (whom I would guess would be the majority) don't care or even understand jailbreaking. They just want to get on their iPhone or computer and have it work for them.
Is this for everyone... certainly not which is why I find your last sentence funny. Your clearly not Apple's target customer as you want to jailbreak and freedom etc etc. So why would Apple care to get respect from the "Apple dis-avowers". They are unlikely to ever been Apple customers and Apple seem to be doing pretty well without this market so far.
The just want it to work crowd include people like my mum who doesn't care about every option under the sun. Generally this type of consumer (whom I would guess would be the majority) don't care or even understand jailbreaking. They just want to get on their iPhone or computer and have it work for them.
Is this for everyone... certainly not which is why I find your last sentence funny. Your clearly not Apple's target customer as you want to jailbreak and freedom etc etc. So why would Apple care to get respect from the "Apple dis-avowers". They are unlikely to ever been Apple customers and Apple seem to be doing pretty well without this market so far.
Just get over yourself. You are endemic of the self righteous tech blog (insert brand) fanatics that just latch onto what is 'anti' cool. Apple have the mass market = must be evil, uncool, crap, rubbish, overpriced, overhyped, blah, blah.
Next year if Google tale the mobile and tablet markets by storm kicking Apple into touch it will be all anti Google, with that crap, slow, fragmented, security nightmare Android OS, or of course it might be Microsoft's closed, limited rubbish Windows mobile7, blah, blah.
Use the word fanboy and you lose because its a stupid phrase used when you have nothing intelligent to say. Eg, I'm just too much of a Google fanboy ????, what the **** does that mean. What makes you a 'fanboy', does that mean that black is better than wite NO MATTER WHAT, does that mean that Coke is better than Pepsi NO MATTER WHAT, what you think of someone that's a Ford fanboy for example, maybe they can sit and tell all the drivers of Toyota's or Mercs or Ferraris why Ford is just better NO MATTER WHAT, and if you are a Ferrari fanboy then you are A. Stupid, B. a Sheep, blah, blah, bloody blah.
Next year if Google tale the mobile and tablet markets by storm kicking Apple into touch it will be all anti Google, with that crap, slow, fragmented, security nightmare Android OS, or of course it might be Microsoft's closed, limited rubbish Windows mobile7, blah, blah.
Use the word fanboy and you lose because its a stupid phrase used when you have nothing intelligent to say. Eg, I'm just too much of a Google fanboy ????, what the **** does that mean. What makes you a 'fanboy', does that mean that black is better than wite NO MATTER WHAT, does that mean that Coke is better than Pepsi NO MATTER WHAT, what you think of someone that's a Ford fanboy for example, maybe they can sit and tell all the drivers of Toyota's or Mercs or Ferraris why Ford is just better NO MATTER WHAT, and if you are a Ferrari fanboy then you are A. Stupid, B. a Sheep, blah, blah, bloody blah.
On the other hand, looking around the web at the biggest Apple cheerleaders - at the output of a bunch of lifestyle/tech bloggers whose main talent is hustling self-promotion, and reading them congratulate themselves for being in synchronicity with the lowest-common-denominator consumer does make me snort in contempt.
Especially when said bloggers affect a sense of jaded experience that they can't back up once you strip away their ability to BS on their feet.
It should be a time for considering what it means down the line. We all know IT, with the exception of certain specialised uses, will become completely consumerised in the manner of the car. One of the questions is, how Apple's current dominance and apparent lead in this consumerisation will affect the future.
As CES showed, the rest of the tech industry (with the slight exception of ironically Microsoft perhaps) seems to be in a position where the only original idea they have is to follow Apple, but with their own non-optimal flavour - because to follow Apple's way most effectively, you must do things the way Apple is doing. It's staggering to me that having seen the iPod's rise, no-one in the other tech companies has actually figured this out (and managed to push it through the internal fiefdoms and politicking of that company). And Android's current success in terms of numbers is, lets face it, mainly a matter of cost (in terms of the slightly cheaper contract cost of mass-market examples) - not because the majority of the users espouse the greater openness / chaos (delete as applicable) of the platform or any innovation specific to it.
Taking the car analogy, if you'd left it up to Apple, I postulate for example that we now would all be in driverless cars limited to 55mph, with loads of nice touches in the car to make the passengers feel at home, no direct control over the car at all, and where crashes are blamed on everything but the Apple car itself. There would be no mechanics at all and Top Gear would never exist - only AppleAutoRumors.
Which future do you want to live in, is I think a question worth asking.
Especially when said bloggers affect a sense of jaded experience that they can't back up once you strip away their ability to BS on their feet.
It should be a time for considering what it means down the line. We all know IT, with the exception of certain specialised uses, will become completely consumerised in the manner of the car. One of the questions is, how Apple's current dominance and apparent lead in this consumerisation will affect the future.
As CES showed, the rest of the tech industry (with the slight exception of ironically Microsoft perhaps) seems to be in a position where the only original idea they have is to follow Apple, but with their own non-optimal flavour - because to follow Apple's way most effectively, you must do things the way Apple is doing. It's staggering to me that having seen the iPod's rise, no-one in the other tech companies has actually figured this out (and managed to push it through the internal fiefdoms and politicking of that company). And Android's current success in terms of numbers is, lets face it, mainly a matter of cost (in terms of the slightly cheaper contract cost of mass-market examples) - not because the majority of the users espouse the greater openness / chaos (delete as applicable) of the platform or any innovation specific to it.
Taking the car analogy, if you'd left it up to Apple, I postulate for example that we now would all be in driverless cars limited to 55mph, with loads of nice touches in the car to make the passengers feel at home, no direct control over the car at all, and where crashes are blamed on everything but the Apple car itself. There would be no mechanics at all and Top Gear would never exist - only AppleAutoRumors.
Which future do you want to live in, is I think a question worth asking.
Thank you, ArmpitOfDeath, for highlighting this. Just because IT will become consumerised, as you say, does not mean that the form and substance of the process is fixed.
And let's remember that a car, or a phone, for example are vastly simpler devices than a Mac/PC - in the case of a car, we have a device that moves in space (currently 2D; even if it goes in the air and is 3D, it still has a simple physics behind it). A PC/Mac is a device for managing *information.* That's many orders of magnitude more complex - it's where the analogy of calling a computer an appliance, like a car, breaks down.
And let's remember that a car, or a phone, for example are vastly simpler devices than a Mac/PC - in the case of a car, we have a device that moves in space (currently 2D; even if it goes in the air and is 3D, it still has a simple physics behind it). A PC/Mac is a device for managing *information.* That's many orders of magnitude more complex - it's where the analogy of calling a computer an appliance, like a car, breaks down.
See...this is exactly my issue, I feel like I'm talking to a wall. It's not a matter of pure brand adoration, I like Google because they jive with my ideals more so than any other company, so I support them.
So I'll leave it at this. More paranoia I'm sure.
arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/apple-screwing-...
That's from TODAY. I don't think a week goes by that Apple doesn't do something to remind me why I dislike them so much. Yes it's minor, get the screwdriver kit. But it'd indicative of the company's behavior and ethos, and Steve fosters that attitude. I think you'll all missing the point that I WANT Apple to do well because when they're not being over-controlling they're good and pushing things along. All discussion aside, I respect Jobs' ability to get things done and his focus on quality, but I want to see a successful Apple without him dictating his over-hyped vision.
So I'll leave it at this. More paranoia I'm sure.
arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/apple-screwing-...
That's from TODAY. I don't think a week goes by that Apple doesn't do something to remind me why I dislike them so much. Yes it's minor, get the screwdriver kit. But it'd indicative of the company's behavior and ethos, and Steve fosters that attitude. I think you'll all missing the point that I WANT Apple to do well because when they're not being over-controlling they're good and pushing things along. All discussion aside, I respect Jobs' ability to get things done and his focus on quality, but I want to see a successful Apple without him dictating his over-hyped vision.
The difference is that most of Apple's competitors -- especially in the PC space -- do not make life so difficult for independent service facilities and DIYers. Take for example what Apple has done with the custom firmware hard drives required for the latest generation of imac. If you don't use an Apple firmware drive, the fan(s) will run at full speed, with nothing you can do about it.
To my knowledge, no other PC maker goes out of their way to stop you from using industry standard drives in a desktop/laptop computer. And what Apple is doing not only makes life difficult for the person that likes to work on their own computer, but also creates headaches for those who service computers for a living (folks like myself). Considering how common hard drive failures are, this is unacceptable.
Thankfully, Apple does not (yet) require special tools to change out the HD in an MBP, but they certainly do make the job more difficult than is necessary (all in the vain quest for a seamless computer bottom -- and who cares about that?).
Anyone can change out the hard drive in a ThinkPad in 5-10 minutes. A MacBook Pro takes at least a half-hour* and if you're not experienced with computer service, you could do some real damage to the components inside. ( * No this is not an invitation for a hotshot to post "I can do it in 10 minutes, so you must be an old man".)
I believe that anyone who services computers for a living will agree that there is considerable evidence that Apple goes out of their way to make their computers difficult to service. Their industrial design provides little consideration for the need to disassemble and reassemble these "technology as sculpture" product. That is short-sighted and selfish.
To my knowledge, no other PC maker goes out of their way to stop you from using industry standard drives in a desktop/laptop computer. And what Apple is doing not only makes life difficult for the person that likes to work on their own computer, but also creates headaches for those who service computers for a living (folks like myself). Considering how common hard drive failures are, this is unacceptable.
Thankfully, Apple does not (yet) require special tools to change out the HD in an MBP, but they certainly do make the job more difficult than is necessary (all in the vain quest for a seamless computer bottom -- and who cares about that?).
Anyone can change out the hard drive in a ThinkPad in 5-10 minutes. A MacBook Pro takes at least a half-hour* and if you're not experienced with computer service, you could do some real damage to the components inside. ( * No this is not an invitation for a hotshot to post "I can do it in 10 minutes, so you must be an old man".)
I believe that anyone who services computers for a living will agree that there is considerable evidence that Apple goes out of their way to make their computers difficult to service. Their industrial design provides little consideration for the need to disassemble and reassemble these "technology as sculpture" product. That is short-sighted and selfish.
Don't disagree. No one in there right mind should buy a mac if they want to tinker, upgrade etc. As you have pointed out Macs aren't overtly friendly towards tinkers or PC repairers like yourself compared to other PC manufacturers.
My post was a reply to jefmes and was mean't to merely highlight that lots of companies use non-standard screws and are equally difficult to access. So why the hate on Apple vs these other companies ? Same sin really or is it just that it's Apple?
My post was a reply to jefmes and was mean't to merely highlight that lots of companies use non-standard screws and are equally difficult to access. So why the hate on Apple vs these other companies ? Same sin really or is it just that it's Apple?
As I mentioned in my post, it's because Apple's competitors are not (typically) engaging in the same "block the customer from servicing their own property" tactics that Apple does. Certainly, for the example you cite (Nintendo), it may be commonplace among their peers. But among PC makers, Apple's anti-service behavior goes well beyond their competitors. I can't speak to the iPhone service aspect of the discussion, as I have never repaired mobile phones.
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