It's time for RIM to abandon BlackBerry 10 and adopt either Android or Windows Phone. It doesn't matter that PlayBook 2.0 received some better-than-expected press coverage at CES last week, or that there have been some interesting hints here and there about what the first phones running RIM's new mobile OS will look like. And while it's bad enough that the first phones running BlackBerry 10 won't ship until sometime around the end of the year, the real problem is that even if RIM started shipping phones tomorrow with an OS that could hold a candle to iOS, Android, and Windows Phone, it probably wouldn't make much of a difference. RIM would still be in very serious trouble.
Why? Because the market has coalesced around iOS and Android, and the network effects (primarily, but not only, around apps) those two platforms have created is proving difficult for even a worthy competitor like Windows Phone, which has already been available for over a year, to gain marketshare.
Microsoft may yet pull it off and cement Windows Phone as top tier competitor alongside iOS and Android. If they do, it's going to be in part because they landed the largest mobile phone maker in the world as a partner and are spending billions of dollars to compete. The scary thing for RIM is that they won't have those kinds of advantages to draw on, and that by the time they ship the first BlackBerry 10 phones there's a good chance Microsoft will have made enough inroads that they'll be fighting not two, but three, major players for the allegiance of smartphone customers and developers.
You can dissect the reasons for iOS and Android's success, but short of BlackBerry 10 being some phenomenal leap forward that's years ahead of the competition -- and I don't think anyone honestly believes RIM has the chops to pull this off anyway -- it's just hard to see any scenario in which RIM delivers a mobile OS that attracts significant usage.
Remember that it's not longer enough to be about as good as what else is out there. It's not even enough to be a little bit better, or to be better than everyone else at a couple of things. To have a successful mobile OS in 2012 you have to offer a clear and compelling case for what is distinctly different and significantly better about your platform. I think this is something that would challenge any technology company today. Simply creating a world-class mobile OS isn't a trivial matter; going beyond that and building one that leapfrogs its rivals is extraordinarily difficult. (This is why it was such a big deal when Apple introduced the iPhone.) We already saw what happened to webOS, which despite being well-regarded was simply not better enough than the competition in any meaningful way and failed to gain significant adoption. Is there any compelling evidence that RIM possesses the engineering and design expertise to avoid a similar fate for BlackBerry 10?
Given the low odds that BlackBerry 10 will be a game-changer, what should RIM do? Well, there are a few options:
1. Sell off the handset business
This would be tough for RIM psychologically, but there's no reason for a cratering handset division to take down a company that still has a profitable services business. Separating the two sides would be complicated, but analysts have suggested that given how sucky RIM seems to be at making phones people want to buy, the more attractive long-term opportunity lies with enterprise network services. They'd probably be able to get someone like Huawei to buy it, and get them to commit to using RIM's services infrastructure, to boot.
2. Go with Android or perhaps even Windows Phone
Either option will be a tough sell up in Waterloo, but it wasn't easy for Stephen Elop to force Nokia to abandon Meego and Symbian for Windows Phone, and he managed to push it through. Yes, the jury is still out on whether Nokia's move will be a success, but doesn't it say something that the Lumia 800 is the first Nokia phone in years that people are legitimately excited about? RIM needs to face the same reality Nokia did, namely that this is a battle of ecosystems and not devices.
Besides, when it comes down to it, most people who buy a BlackBerry do so because of its awesome keyboard, BlackBerry Messenger, and excellent (and secure) Exchange support. They don't care about the underlying OS, and there's no reason why RIM couldn't bring those same features to an Android device. (In fact, given how few Android phones with decent physical keyboards there are, there is probably a gap in the market that RIM could take advantage of.) Reproducing RIM's email and messaging infrastructure in Android wouldn't be trivial, but it might be better to direct the company's relatively limited engineering resources towards that more limited problem rather than trying -- and failing -- to develop a full-blown OS. If RIM introduced a messaging-centric Android phone with a world-class keyboard and great Exchange support you could certainly see them making inroads in the enterprise market, as well as attracting renewed interest from consumers.
3. Hook up with Amazon
There were some rumors last month that Amazon was looking at buying RIM, and while an acquisition is unlikely, they could end up collaborating anyway. There's no indication that this is happening, but it's not impossible to imagine a scenario in which RIM, realizing that BlackBerry 10 is a dead end, but not wanting to become just another Android OEM, uses Amazon's fork of Android on its phones and tablets.
Such a move would jumpstart RIM's Android efforts and differentiate it from its competitors, while offsetting some development costs. If Amazon were willing to give RIM some cut of the profits from digital media sales or Prime subscriptions sign-ups generated it could potentially even lead to some additional revenue for RIM.
Amazon loses money on each Kindle Fire sold, so the idea of them letting someone else use their OS for free is not at all far-fetched. All they care about is whether it increases the userbase for Amazon products and services. Do they need RIM? No, probably not. But hooking up with RIM could be a way for Amazon to spread its ecosystem and take on Apple. Not that I see any indication that anyone at RIM (or Amazon) is thinking along these lines, but it's fun to speculate about what they could do together.
Regardless of what they decide to do, RIM has to make the best of a bad situation. These three analyst quotes from a recent New York Times story (www.nytimes.com/2012/01/04/technology/rims-delay-c...) about RIM tell a grim story:
“They don’t have a firm grasp of the issues and realities of bringing these phones to market,” - Colin Gillis, analyst with BGC Partners.
“They can’t get the infrastructure and the operating system ready in time,” - Peter Misek, analyst with Jefferies & Company.
“Waiting for the chipset is a contributing factor in a number of factors that led to the delay. Creating the ecosystem for the phones is the bigger problem.” - Alkesh Shah, analyst with Evercore Partners
Years of poor decisions have led the company to a place where there are really no good options. The saddest part is that given the obstinance of RIM's co-CEO's, the most likely outcome is that the company will continue on the path its on, releasing the first BlackBerry 10 handsets around the end of this year to a largely indifferent market.
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It's time for RIM to abandon BlackBerry 10 and adopt either Android or Windows Phone
So regardless of your post I dont think RIM should abandon their products, they should realize their place in the market as business related phones instead of trying to go to the top of the social world. I beg to differ that they don't compete with iOS and Android as RIM has the security that neither of the 2 have. I went back from the Android platform to a Blackberry as well as tried out the iOS of a friends device. They are great devices and absolutely fantastic for a multimedia type user. However with the automatic push of Blackberry for email it far wins my appreciation, I have yet also to find a device that takes better pictures or if the camera is even half as stable as the blackberry. They say you shouldn't rely on your mobile device for a camera but I have a 6& 8 yo little girls and when you go to the zoo or somewhere fun like the park. You cant run around and slide and do things with a Nikon wrapped around your neck or even a pocket size camera. I have already broken 2 of them and have no need in purchasing another. I take approximately 1-200 pics a month and couldn't be happier with my blackberry. Running a business neither the iOS nor the Android could keep up. The devices weren't job site friendly and the apps although free I don't see myself as an app-hog. I never had many as I got no use out of any of them. I enjoy reading your blog and it gives great insight to many things. I can't wait for Blackberry 10 to come out and I may be only one of a few but I am.
In my view and usage experience, the best for RIM would be to maintain its hardware image and move along with Android only software since it is very widely used in all difference wireless and can provide high level of security and is increasing its apps and visibility day by day.
rim is dead and has been for a long time. i find it hilarious that people still talk about physical keyboards as being relevant. they have already been relegated to the dustbin of history.
bezos & co would send rim into a further tailspin. selling out to microsoft is their only hope and even that option is fraught with uncertainties.
bezos & co would send rim into a further tailspin. selling out to microsoft is their only hope and even that option is fraught with uncertainties.
Your pretty certain there for a guy who called himself "techtard" :)
That's what I thought, but I have talked to enough people who have use all types to know that there are still a significant number of people who prefer them.
If I were to estimate, I'd say at least 50% prefer a physical keyboard, although a lot of them make do with a software keyboard.
That's what I thought, but I have talked to enough people who have use all types to know that there are still a significant number of people who prefer them.
If I were to estimate, I'd say at least 50% prefer a physical keyboard, although a lot of them make do with a software keyboard.
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Physical keyboards are still very popular among business users. The larger adoption to on screen keyboard also results in less battery life and that is another caveat the BB users enjoy on most of the BB phones. It is a selling feature. The strong Exchange Support is still the core for RIM's exisitence.
I agree with you on at least collaborating with Microsoft since they would be a more natural fit for the Exchange integration and messaging. Their 7.5 Mango has very strong features related to Microsoft Exchange and unified messaging. They could build on it stronger and get it to market quicker than with Android.
I agree with you on at least collaborating with Microsoft since they would be a more natural fit for the Exchange integration and messaging. Their 7.5 Mango has very strong features related to Microsoft Exchange and unified messaging. They could build on it stronger and get it to market quicker than with Android.
Your local “Canadian living in the US” here,
I’ll start off by saying anyone who knows me knows I’m an Android fanboy, but I can’t help but support the hometown hero, I’m also one to often cheer for the underdog (eg. webOS).
BlackBerry Outside the US
I think the situation for RIM is a little different outside the US, or even more so, outside the Tech scene a lot of us are a part of. The BlackBerry is traditionally a business phone. “BlackBerry Internet Service is available in 91 countries worldwide on over 500 mobile service operators”. When I was back in Canada I would often hear business people “oh, send me your PIN” (Personal Identification Number for BBM). Or “Yeah, I’ll ping you later” - something tells me it’s both a play on PIN and the networking name. It's in some ways part of a business culture.
See davidribeiro94’s comment “RIM is still going very strong here in Canada, UK, and a bunch of countries in Asia. Every single week there's someone on Facebook posting his/her BB PIN”.
Back in Canada, 4 of my family members have BlackBerry’s. Honestly, I’m looking forward to RIM launching their BBM app on Android, to keep in touch since my family's always BBMing each other (it’s free, like iMessage on iPhone).
Governments and Corporations
Government and a lot of corporations equip their employees with BlackBerry’s as “work phones”. RIM has nailed that market, and I bet is a significant part of their revenue stream and probably why they aren’t going anywhere. Out of anyone Windows phones might be able to take them on in this area. Those gov/corps don’t want to move away from blackberry because they know it’s secure, it would be costly to change, and mean training their tech’s on new hardware / software to support.
Profitability?
If you look at Wikipedia they seem to make 5 billion more sales than their previous year, year over year. As well as increasing net income at 25% - 50% year over year.
Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_In_Motion#Growth
That doesn’t seem like an indicator of a company that’s going away anytime soon. Despite this though, their stock hit an almost all time low of $12/share Dec 20th, 2011. The stock has since been on a general rise over the last month, likely due partially to their announcement of Playbook OS 2.0.
Positioning Themselves - Their Future
I think the general consensus of this thread is RIM has to refocus. Which I think even they realize (In July 2011, they cut 2,000 jobs). I’m not sure if being just another skin of Android is the solution though. They know they've got the business users covered, their challenge is to make phones cool enough to get the general consumer to choose them. They have the best keyboard phones on the market, solid Exchange and messaging, and It’s not like they’re not trying new cool things - PlayBook OS 2.0 looks pretty good, they borrow a lot of concepts from webOS (Card View, Synergy, etc) and ICS: www.engadget.com/2012/01/10/blackberry-playbook-os... .
I’ll start off by saying anyone who knows me knows I’m an Android fanboy, but I can’t help but support the hometown hero, I’m also one to often cheer for the underdog (eg. webOS).
BlackBerry Outside the US
I think the situation for RIM is a little different outside the US, or even more so, outside the Tech scene a lot of us are a part of. The BlackBerry is traditionally a business phone. “BlackBerry Internet Service is available in 91 countries worldwide on over 500 mobile service operators”. When I was back in Canada I would often hear business people “oh, send me your PIN” (Personal Identification Number for BBM). Or “Yeah, I’ll ping you later” - something tells me it’s both a play on PIN and the networking name. It's in some ways part of a business culture.
See davidribeiro94’s comment “RIM is still going very strong here in Canada, UK, and a bunch of countries in Asia. Every single week there's someone on Facebook posting his/her BB PIN”.
Back in Canada, 4 of my family members have BlackBerry’s. Honestly, I’m looking forward to RIM launching their BBM app on Android, to keep in touch since my family's always BBMing each other (it’s free, like iMessage on iPhone).
Governments and Corporations
Government and a lot of corporations equip their employees with BlackBerry’s as “work phones”. RIM has nailed that market, and I bet is a significant part of their revenue stream and probably why they aren’t going anywhere. Out of anyone Windows phones might be able to take them on in this area. Those gov/corps don’t want to move away from blackberry because they know it’s secure, it would be costly to change, and mean training their tech’s on new hardware / software to support.
Profitability?
If you look at Wikipedia they seem to make 5 billion more sales than their previous year, year over year. As well as increasing net income at 25% - 50% year over year.
Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_In_Motion#Growth
That doesn’t seem like an indicator of a company that’s going away anytime soon. Despite this though, their stock hit an almost all time low of $12/share Dec 20th, 2011. The stock has since been on a general rise over the last month, likely due partially to their announcement of Playbook OS 2.0.
Positioning Themselves - Their Future
I think the general consensus of this thread is RIM has to refocus. Which I think even they realize (In July 2011, they cut 2,000 jobs). I’m not sure if being just another skin of Android is the solution though. They know they've got the business users covered, their challenge is to make phones cool enough to get the general consumer to choose them. They have the best keyboard phones on the market, solid Exchange and messaging, and It’s not like they’re not trying new cool things - PlayBook OS 2.0 looks pretty good, they borrow a lot of concepts from webOS (Card View, Synergy, etc) and ICS: www.engadget.com/2012/01/10/blackberry-playbook-os... .
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Haters and Fanboys piling on in the comments. Sorry but maybe iCloud just came out and now you might have a slight workaround for some syncing. Did everyone with an iOS device delete itunes and their entire media library from their desktops? Sorry but for years I (and many others) have fought with itunes and its horrible design. All this time I had people saying, it works great, they were wrong too. I doubt many desktop users replied to this thread on their touch screen PCs or flat, touch sensitive keyboards either. To use iCloud and iSync you have to do everything OTA which drains battery, is slow and let's all hope it works better than Siri. And FWIW as a PC user I like a hard copy backup of my data and purchases. I also like to be able to easily browse device files and directories, I often use my phone as a thumb drive on multiple PCs.
All these haters and fanboys, yet few pointed criticisms of the BBOS. Their new 4G phones with lots of ram and fast cpus and lots of (expandable) memory are great and I personally have only been frustrated by iOS phones and Android phones. As to why I mentioned above. I am rather tired of people down playing the marketing side of things and (yet again) giving Apple credit for things they merely expanded upon and did not invent.
So what am I missing? What should I be looking for that's so sucky about my 1.2G 4G phone with 768m of ram and 32G of swapable storage? Because I have to say it does everything I want it to do. Tell me what magic pixie dust makes Android and iOS so awesome again? I think people want a big story and RIM is loved by its Millions and Millions and Millions of USERs. Clearly the iMarketing has worked for many people, and google has pushed Android on all of us, despite having put out far more crappy phones than quality.
Hey when is the Galaxy Nexus S 4 Gold Fender Edition coming out? Sort of a joke when you need to download an alternate keyboard app because the main one sucks. And iPhone devotees in my family all admit in confidence that iphone typing really isnt that great.
So what am I missing? And tell me please I can delete all of itunes and my entire itms media library and everything will "just work". I'd like to get some of that SSD space back because itunes never liked to be put on a secondary hard drive.
All these haters and fanboys, yet few pointed criticisms of the BBOS. Their new 4G phones with lots of ram and fast cpus and lots of (expandable) memory are great and I personally have only been frustrated by iOS phones and Android phones. As to why I mentioned above. I am rather tired of people down playing the marketing side of things and (yet again) giving Apple credit for things they merely expanded upon and did not invent.
So what am I missing? What should I be looking for that's so sucky about my 1.2G 4G phone with 768m of ram and 32G of swapable storage? Because I have to say it does everything I want it to do. Tell me what magic pixie dust makes Android and iOS so awesome again? I think people want a big story and RIM is loved by its Millions and Millions and Millions of USERs. Clearly the iMarketing has worked for many people, and google has pushed Android on all of us, despite having put out far more crappy phones than quality.
Hey when is the Galaxy Nexus S 4 Gold Fender Edition coming out? Sort of a joke when you need to download an alternate keyboard app because the main one sucks. And iPhone devotees in my family all admit in confidence that iphone typing really isnt that great.
So what am I missing? And tell me please I can delete all of itunes and my entire itms media library and everything will "just work". I'd like to get some of that SSD space back because itunes never liked to be put on a secondary hard drive.
Actually, I disagree with a few of the points. The ONLY 2 things, as far as I can tell, that RIM has, are BBM and a secure device that is not hackable. Everything else mentioned above, including the secure Exchange or the great keyboard, are not differentiators.
I won't comment much about BBM. I just don't think it's that important. There are plenty of other chat platforms that work well.
Android has great phones, some with a keyboard, and some w/o. Some of the ones with the keyboard are total copy cats of the Blackberry keyboard. But who cares about a physical keyboard. Use swiftKey (for example) for 1 day, and you'll realize how much faster it is to touch type, rather than using a physical keyboard.
I used to a be a HUGE Blackberry fan, and my first Android phone was the Original Droid, because I thought that I would need a physical keyboard, and I didn't listen to everyone, when they told me that I'll type way quicker on the screen. They were right. Granted, the keyboard on the OG Droid was pathetic compared to the keyboard on a Blackberry, but I've used a few devices with a great keyboard (from Motorola), and at the end of the day, the touch keyboard is superior and quicker. You also get a much larger screen real-estate.
Native to Android and iOS is secured Exchange. So there is no value there, that RIM is offering.
The ONLY thing, as far as I can tell -- is that the RIM platform can't be hacked because it's one large JAR blob that's encrypted. Android phones can be rooted in seconds or minutes, and iOS phones can be jail-broken easily. So if security is important at the enterprise, someone either needs to find a way to create a locked down Android device (yuck), or RIM should focus on an Android phone that's locked down.
But other than security, which is not important for most consumers, I do agree that the only way for RIM to survive is to either sell, or adopt Android and give up on having their own OS.
I won't comment much about BBM. I just don't think it's that important. There are plenty of other chat platforms that work well.
Android has great phones, some with a keyboard, and some w/o. Some of the ones with the keyboard are total copy cats of the Blackberry keyboard. But who cares about a physical keyboard. Use swiftKey (for example) for 1 day, and you'll realize how much faster it is to touch type, rather than using a physical keyboard.
I used to a be a HUGE Blackberry fan, and my first Android phone was the Original Droid, because I thought that I would need a physical keyboard, and I didn't listen to everyone, when they told me that I'll type way quicker on the screen. They were right. Granted, the keyboard on the OG Droid was pathetic compared to the keyboard on a Blackberry, but I've used a few devices with a great keyboard (from Motorola), and at the end of the day, the touch keyboard is superior and quicker. You also get a much larger screen real-estate.
Native to Android and iOS is secured Exchange. So there is no value there, that RIM is offering.
The ONLY thing, as far as I can tell -- is that the RIM platform can't be hacked because it's one large JAR blob that's encrypted. Android phones can be rooted in seconds or minutes, and iOS phones can be jail-broken easily. So if security is important at the enterprise, someone either needs to find a way to create a locked down Android device (yuck), or RIM should focus on an Android phone that's locked down.
But other than security, which is not important for most consumers, I do agree that the only way for RIM to survive is to either sell, or adopt Android and give up on having their own OS.
This sounds a lot like deja vu to me. Palm had dragged their users along with no real innovation for years. Then they announced a device that depended on a phone for all its functionality, prompting you guys to right a manifesto telling them how to save the ship. They tried to change course, but ultimately failed. The RIM story is very similar at this point. Perhaps their service business can survive, but there is less necessity for it now in the current market of pretty good messaging services. As for the hardware, everyone I know who owns a Blackberry is a long-time user, and they each despise their current Blackberry, both software and hardware. I have watched droves of people flee Blackberry for the last few years and every one of them has told me how much better their iPhones and Android phones are. I'm afraid RIM is destined to RIP.
Yeah, the parallels are there. RIM is a bit better at executing. The Playbook at least came to market, unlike the Foleo. And it is more functional. But still not a success. Palm staggered around for years with an outdated OS while they repeatedly screwed up attempts to develop their next version (OS 6, their first Linux effort, the completely different Linux OS for the Foleo) until they finally came out with WebOS - too late. Palm was on top of the world, the market leader, and they rested on their laurels long enough to lose it all.
In Peter's tweets he said that releasing a great product wasn't enough, the key to success was market share. From a web stand point IE6 is a great success; it maintains a decent market share considering its age. It is able to do this because large corporations rely upon it, having custom software built for IE.
I am under the impression that RIM still has this hold on some major businesses. Could RIM use its business sector market share to form a rebirth? Would they be able to force BB10 into the hands of the consumers and let this sectored market share grow organically into the complete smart phone sector?
I am under the impression that RIM still has this hold on some major businesses. Could RIM use its business sector market share to form a rebirth? Would they be able to force BB10 into the hands of the consumers and let this sectored market share grow organically into the complete smart phone sector?
The only reason I still use my blackberry is because of blackberry messenger and email. I dont know what it feels like to have dual core, hd capable phones. I never switched because being in a foreign country, BBM and easy emailing capabilities is a must to be able to effectively communicate to the States. I think its pretty sad but there is no way BB10 can pull off such a miracle. We need to be able to use the same apps that are already in the wild on our phones. An android-fork would do wonders for them.
Funny thing is I think Blackberry makes some of the nicest hardware I've ever used, The sound and build quality are excellent. The OS and the software ecosystem are pretty pathetic. Heck, I paid full retail for a phone to get away from my Blackberry and that is the only time I've ever done that since I bought my first cell phone back in 1999.
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I said back when they made the QNX grab that they should've gone with Android and customized it instead. Then they'd have the benefit of all the resources poured into Android by the OHA/Google and they could focus on the BB services that differentiate them. By doing the whole OS in-house they have to spend resources on the nuts & bolts that they'd get from Android. Sure, it gives them complete control, but is it worth the cost? I don't think so.
Jump into the modern age with dual-core GHz hardware, high-res screens, native Android app support - with RIM's deservedly well-regarded keyboards and services.
Years back they offered a package of BB services for Windows Mobile. It basically brought all of the flagship BB apps to WinMo as an app suite. They should do the same thing again with Android and iOS, and maybe Windows Phone. There are customers who are going to Android and iOS for the ecosystem, but still miss their BB services - just not enough to put up with RIM's weak HW and ecosystem. They'd be the market for a 'soft Blackberry'.
Jump into the modern age with dual-core GHz hardware, high-res screens, native Android app support - with RIM's deservedly well-regarded keyboards and services.
Years back they offered a package of BB services for Windows Mobile. It basically brought all of the flagship BB apps to WinMo as an app suite. They should do the same thing again with Android and iOS, and maybe Windows Phone. There are customers who are going to Android and iOS for the ecosystem, but still miss their BB services - just not enough to put up with RIM's weak HW and ecosystem. They'd be the market for a 'soft Blackberry'.
Oh i don't know... Blackberries do have some good features... but I don't think they need to ditch those in order to complete. the problem *is* the OS... not just what it looks like, but its internal structure, which as a developer I can tell you is one of the worst to work with.
They *do* need to change the OS... even QNX is not impressive... and i haven't touched on design yet..
I think they need to keep the hardware, but they need to adopt a better OS that can actually evolve with the consuming public.
They *do* need to change the OS... even QNX is not impressive... and i haven't touched on design yet..
I think they need to keep the hardware, but they need to adopt a better OS that can actually evolve with the consuming public.
Don't fully agree that Apple necessarily leapfrogged the competition with original iPhone. Yes, the interface was smooth, and Safari, although limited in other ways, could display a mutli-column page well. The OS was also intentionally limited vs the competition. Remember, the original iPhone had no 3rd party apps, and no plans for them; all apps were to be web based. What do many iOS users rave about now - 3rd party apps which were not part of the original plan. A big selling point was an iPod in your phone, and the iPod halo effect certainly helped.
What Apple leapfrogged the competition in was effective mainstream advertising. Before the iPhone, smartphones were rarely advertised in the mainstream media. Carrier advertising emphasized the network, and any phones mentioned were secondary. With the introduction of the iPhone, we were inundated with iPhone network TV commercials, advertising kiosks, bus waiting area end panels. free mentions in the radio / TV newscasts whenever a new version was released, and the overall salivating bordering on orgasmic reviews in the tech press. In addition, the radio talk show host with the largest audience is an avid Apple fan, a segment or two of the show resembles a free infomercial when a new iOS product is announced, and then again when released.
Android did not start its meteoric rise until the large mainstream advertising campaign for the Droid. Don't remember any mainstream advertising for Palm, or Window Mobile. Any advertising for the existing competition in 2007 was in a tech, or vertical market publication.
Have not really used Blackberry so cannot comment on what RIM should, or should not do.
What Apple leapfrogged the competition in was effective mainstream advertising. Before the iPhone, smartphones were rarely advertised in the mainstream media. Carrier advertising emphasized the network, and any phones mentioned were secondary. With the introduction of the iPhone, we were inundated with iPhone network TV commercials, advertising kiosks, bus waiting area end panels. free mentions in the radio / TV newscasts whenever a new version was released, and the overall salivating bordering on orgasmic reviews in the tech press. In addition, the radio talk show host with the largest audience is an avid Apple fan, a segment or two of the show resembles a free infomercial when a new iOS product is announced, and then again when released.
Android did not start its meteoric rise until the large mainstream advertising campaign for the Droid. Don't remember any mainstream advertising for Palm, or Window Mobile. Any advertising for the existing competition in 2007 was in a tech, or vertical market publication.
Have not really used Blackberry so cannot comment on what RIM should, or should not do.
Wow, I'd have to strongly disagree. Just about every single smartphone on the market has come to resemble the original iPhone for a reason. They had to in order to remain relevant. If that's not proof it leap frogged the competition, then I don't know what is.
It made the rest of the smartphone industry instantly appear out dated. Not just after the app store came out, I mean instantly.
It made the rest of the smartphone industry instantly appear out dated. Not just after the app store came out, I mean instantly.
Respect your opinion, but disagree. I favored the bigger screen devices, and even before the iPhone, used finger navigation 95% of the time with Palm and WInMo. Classic WinMo out of the box still does more of the tasks I need than a new non-jailbroken iPhone. The original iPhone took 74 days to sell a million if I remember correctly, I expected bigger sales from the Apple faithful alone, and I realize it was US only. So that is not instantly, and Apple was still the only major company with mainstream advertising until the Droid which started Android's eventual surpassing iOS. Alternate browsers were available for WM which displayed multi-columns pages as good as the iPhone, and single pages much better without reading with a small font, or horizontal scrolling each line. Not saying Apple did not improve things (while negatively limiting for my use), just disagree about the leapfrog comment. I do respect other opinions, and realize others have different needs. In 2004, used a Sony Clie TH-55 PDA with a 3.5" screen, 480 x 320, tablet format (sound familiar) with a supplied NetFront browser which could display just about any page of that era with user desired font size, appropriate text rewrap, and the minature version of the entire page.
The iPhone originally had a price tag of $600. That was the major reason it was slow to sell, not because people didn't want it over anything else on the market (especially WM6--oh my GOD are you kidding me?!)
I had a Sony Clie and there was no comparison between the web browsing experience on that and the 2007 iPhone. Sorry, but if that's what you think then we might as well stop this conversation right now because we aren't going to agree on much. Definitely an Interesting opinion though!
I had a Sony Clie and there was no comparison between the web browsing experience on that and the 2007 iPhone. Sorry, but if that's what you think then we might as well stop this conversation right now because we aren't going to agree on much. Definitely an Interesting opinion though!
Wm 6 was great for me, stable, reliable, did what I needed, reset iPhone / touch as often as Wm, your mileage may vary. Did you have a TH-55, or earlier. Th55 had very good browsing on web pages of that era as did NetFront on WM. I purchased NetFront on WM due to positive experience on Clie. On WiFi, or tethered Bluetooth, web was fine as long as you had a signal that could deliver the bits.
Your comment supports my original post. Apple launched very successful, advertising campaigns to persuade people with regular, and feature phones to upgrade to smartphones. Meanwhile, the competition at the time (Palm, RIM, and WM) advertised almost exclusively in tech, and vertical market publications. Non-tech consumers had the iPhone brand in their mind when they decided to buy a smartphone from seeing / hearing all the iPhone ads in the mainstrean media showing the iPhone doing cool things while seeing neglible to zero mainstream ads from the competition. The iPod halo effect certainly helped as well which was enabled in large part by the previous massive mainstream advertising campaigns for the iPod while the music player competitors did no mainstream advertising. Smartphone competitors made the same mistake as the mp3 competitors. If you want to sell to the non-tech consumer, you must advertise in the media the non-tech consumers see / hear.
No, you are totally wrong.
Apple absolutely changed the game and leapfrogged everyone with iPhone. The form factor has not changed substantially nor the interface and it is STILL the benchmark.
Yes - Apple are marketing geniuses.
Yes - everything Apple is over hyped.
But the iPhone was way, way ahead of it's game that is 100% for sure.
Apple absolutely changed the game and leapfrogged everyone with iPhone. The form factor has not changed substantially nor the interface and it is STILL the benchmark.
Yes - Apple are marketing geniuses.
Yes - everything Apple is over hyped.
But the iPhone was way, way ahead of it's game that is 100% for sure.
We agree on two points, marketing geniuses, and over-hyped. :-)
Form factor is still in vogue, but was used before iPhone. Sony Clie TH-55 used a no physical keyboard tablet slab form with 3.5 inch, 480 x 320 screen in 2004. Sony supplied the excellent NetFront browser, and the main interface was a grid of icons (like all Palm OS devices of the era) with an optional more graphical interface.
When Steve Jobs held up the original iPhone at MacWorld in 2007, at first I thought he was holding up a 2004 era Clie TH-55. Others thought he has holding up a Dell x50 series PDA. I have a x51v, and see the resemblance.
Form factor is still in vogue, but was used before iPhone. Sony Clie TH-55 used a no physical keyboard tablet slab form with 3.5 inch, 480 x 320 screen in 2004. Sony supplied the excellent NetFront browser, and the main interface was a grid of icons (like all Palm OS devices of the era) with an optional more graphical interface.
When Steve Jobs held up the original iPhone at MacWorld in 2007, at first I thought he was holding up a 2004 era Clie TH-55. Others thought he has holding up a Dell x50 series PDA. I have a x51v, and see the resemblance.
I had the Sony Clie NZ-90 PDA - same 480x320 display with keyboard. It was great. I gave it up when the Treo 600 came out, in order to carry just one device. But it was a step backwards in hardware and it wasn't until the OG Droid that I felt a new device was a real upgrade. And yes, that includes the iPhone. I just didn't feel like the first models of iPhone were a real advancement.
Being a gadget addict, I did have the NZ-90 as well, what a top of the line, well engineered PDA that was. The NZ-90 was like the "Swiss Army Knife" of the PDA world. IMO, Sony was the innovator in the Palm OS world. Palm was kind of resting on their laurels, but Sony was constantly innovating. It was a sad day for Palm OS fans when Sony ended the Clie line, as it was a sad day for Windows Mobile fans when Toshiba ended their WM PDA's. Always considered Toshiba the Sony equivalent in the Windows Mobile world.
My .02-
I have owned and used devices running Windows Phone, iOS, Android and BB. I have to say, for a phone, BB is is the easiest and most logical OS I have ever used. On the wicked responsive 9900 4G from Tmo I have had no problems, once in a blue moon it will hourglass, but it has way too many good features and ease of use to abandon. Though it is pretty to look at, iOS is critically flawed by it's reliance and association with iTunes. The singe worst scrap of software ever written. iCloud does not fix the fact that the OS itself needs some other piece of software(somewhere else) to work. The updating and backup system of iOS devices is the definition of frustration and I am glad (every day) that I do not rely or depend on iOS5 to handle my "must have" communication device. Not having an anytime menu with loads of options is a major flaw in all iOS devices.
Windows Phone is very quirky and does not have even simple menu options to send a video you just took on your phone. The layout is ok for a while, but isn't really optimized for productivity, file location and management can be a nightmare on windows phone (and iOS and Android frankly).
Android is perhaps the most promising but has shown to be horribly fragmented on both the hardware and software and app compatibility side of things. Memory management is bothersome and relies too much attention, app management is frustrating. It seems like you need 1 app to manage another whenever I use my Android device. Not to mention fragmented, slow, waiting, waiting waiting. Same with even the iphone 4GS. These phones feel slow. I'm sorry but they do. I think people are used to it. Typing "you get used to" but its never as fast as it is on a fully QWERTY and there are just so many more ways to do everything on my 9900. It is almost perfect for me. Not for everyone.
-A bit of background. I'm a working professional Chef who plays guitar and builds fast computers in my spare time. I am currently running a 2600k @ 5.2g @ 1.056v with 480s in SLI OC'd to 800 on a z68UD7. I love gadgets and computers. Peter you make some good points but ill keep my 9900 (give it another look) and my iPad as the perfect combo. -b
-PS. I don't think RIM has made "years of poor decisions" at all. Their first few touch phones were HORRIBLE and they lost all cred when at the same time iPhone came out and Android phones came out and had 100x the marketing dollars and "newness" about them and that is why RIM is in a bad way. imho. BTW STOP SOPA
I have owned and used devices running Windows Phone, iOS, Android and BB. I have to say, for a phone, BB is is the easiest and most logical OS I have ever used. On the wicked responsive 9900 4G from Tmo I have had no problems, once in a blue moon it will hourglass, but it has way too many good features and ease of use to abandon. Though it is pretty to look at, iOS is critically flawed by it's reliance and association with iTunes. The singe worst scrap of software ever written. iCloud does not fix the fact that the OS itself needs some other piece of software(somewhere else) to work. The updating and backup system of iOS devices is the definition of frustration and I am glad (every day) that I do not rely or depend on iOS5 to handle my "must have" communication device. Not having an anytime menu with loads of options is a major flaw in all iOS devices.
Windows Phone is very quirky and does not have even simple menu options to send a video you just took on your phone. The layout is ok for a while, but isn't really optimized for productivity, file location and management can be a nightmare on windows phone (and iOS and Android frankly).
Android is perhaps the most promising but has shown to be horribly fragmented on both the hardware and software and app compatibility side of things. Memory management is bothersome and relies too much attention, app management is frustrating. It seems like you need 1 app to manage another whenever I use my Android device. Not to mention fragmented, slow, waiting, waiting waiting. Same with even the iphone 4GS. These phones feel slow. I'm sorry but they do. I think people are used to it. Typing "you get used to" but its never as fast as it is on a fully QWERTY and there are just so many more ways to do everything on my 9900. It is almost perfect for me. Not for everyone.
-A bit of background. I'm a working professional Chef who plays guitar and builds fast computers in my spare time. I am currently running a 2600k @ 5.2g @ 1.056v with 480s in SLI OC'd to 800 on a z68UD7. I love gadgets and computers. Peter you make some good points but ill keep my 9900 (give it another look) and my iPad as the perfect combo. -b
-PS. I don't think RIM has made "years of poor decisions" at all. Their first few touch phones were HORRIBLE and they lost all cred when at the same time iPhone came out and Android phones came out and had 100x the marketing dollars and "newness" about them and that is why RIM is in a bad way. imho. BTW STOP SOPA
You seem to be a bit out of date on your iOS knowledge.
- Neither iPhone nor iPad require iTunes for anything.
- The updating and backup is handled completely automatically with iCloud and OTA delta updates. Really don't see how it could be any better?
- "Not having an anytime menu with loads of options" is a feature, not a bug, to probably 99.9% of phone users.
I'm sorry do you not need itunes for anything on an iOS device? So I can delete the entire media library from itunes on my computer? And delete itunes altogether? And plug in my iOS stuff and it just works? It actually won't. It just won't. I've had to call Apple before because I deleted a movie I paid for from my hard drive and when I synced my device it erased it from my device. Apple did credit me and let me re-download. But sorry, it doesn't work perfect like you say it does. It never has. iCloud makes it better, but far from perfect. 99.9% of iOS users, possibly. That is about 15% of everyone in the world with a phone. The other 85% have phones with an anytime menu. Android, Windows Phone, BB, Symbian...
I think you'd be right, except for the fact that the consuming public don't agree with you. Do you know anyone in their 20's who wants a Blackberry over an iPhone or Android phone?
Don't forget that those 20 year olds will grow up and make policy for every single company on the planet.
Yes. I do know some people who still prefer Blackberries over iPhone or Android.... there are about 2 or 3 in hundreds and one of them carries both a Blackberry and an Android.
The blackberry users go up if you include those that are required by their companies to carry Blackberries, but their personal phones are something else.
Don't forget that those 20 year olds will grow up and make policy for every single company on the planet.
Yes. I do know some people who still prefer Blackberries over iPhone or Android.... there are about 2 or 3 in hundreds and one of them carries both a Blackberry and an Android.
The blackberry users go up if you include those that are required by their companies to carry Blackberries, but their personal phones are something else.
You're right, they still don't allow you to redownload movies and that's a big missing piece at this point. Music (at least with Match) and apps can be redownloaded infinitely. They've yet to allow that with movies.
Everything else doesn't require iTunes anymore: Activations, music, backups/restores, podcast downloads, picture downloads, etc.
Everything else doesn't require iTunes anymore: Activations, music, backups/restores, podcast downloads, picture downloads, etc.
Actually ssstraub, you do need iTunes just to even enable the iPhone. I know that because I just went through it.
After that you don't really need anything else to make it work... but really you do need iTunes still if you want all the backup and syncing features.
However, it's Apple's phone... why shouldn't they have custom software that Syncs it?
I would like it it could hand my android phone as well!
For that I have to use Double Twist.
After that you don't really need anything else to make it work... but really you do need iTunes still if you want all the backup and syncing features.
However, it's Apple's phone... why shouldn't they have custom software that Syncs it?
I would like it it could hand my android phone as well!
For that I have to use Double Twist.
Going with ssstraub here, you don't need iTunes to activate the phone anymore. And while I'm sure if I went through every option in iTunes there maybe something that's not available, for must users iPhone + iCloud will work just great.
Maybe I should make a video to prove that iTunes was required for me to access the phone.
I literally did it not more than 3 hours ago.
It's possible that there is some sort of setting the carriers can turn on to force it, but all I do know is that syncing with iTunes was *mandatory* if i wanted access to the phone.
I literally did it not more than 3 hours ago.
It's possible that there is some sort of setting the carriers can turn on to force it, but all I do know is that syncing with iTunes was *mandatory* if i wanted access to the phone.
You're absolutely wrong. You do NOT even need a computer to activate any recent iPhone. It's all done online through the cloud. This includes sync of everything, backup, app downloads, etc. There's not a single thing you need iTunes for anymore that you can't do in other ways. You can throw your iPhone in a river, buy a new one, sign in with your Apple ID, and everything is downloaded and restored from their servers. Stop insisting on something you're simply wrong about.
@mjoundi
Dude... you need to modify your attitude. Your tone sucks and your making yourself look like an idiot.
As for needing iTunes; I have direct recent (read hours) experience with this.
I was not able to access the phone without connecting it to iTunes after to doing a reset.
Period.
If I thought it was worth the trouble I could even do it again an video it for you, but I'm not going to bother.
I did not try some sort of hack though, which might be what you are referring to.
Dude... you need to modify your attitude. Your tone sucks and your making yourself look like an idiot.
As for needing iTunes; I have direct recent (read hours) experience with this.
I was not able to access the phone without connecting it to iTunes after to doing a reset.
Period.
If I thought it was worth the trouble I could even do it again an video it for you, but I'm not going to bother.
I did not try some sort of hack though, which might be what you are referring to.
