After owning a first gen iPod Nano for several years I have been waiting for this year's iPod and Zune updates to finally decide which device to get next. However, even after all of the announcements I continue to be conflicted. The Zune HD in many respects is the technologically superior device; however, I am having trouble getting around the following. Please let me know your thoughts and/or if I am missing something.
1. No built in speaker. This is one reason I load a lot of podcasts onto my Blackberry. I like to listen while I get ready in the morning when I am out of town, and headphones just get in the way.
2. Do podcasts sync wirelessly to the Zune HD? I just saw a post on zune.net that said *not*. I think this works on the iPod touch, but aren't sure about that either. This would be a killer feature, especially during events where I am following a daily podcast.
3. No aggressive roadmap for app support. Despite having a kicking screen and processor the Zune HD doesn't appear to have a compelling story around this feature. I am concerned that we will at most get a trickle of apps that Microsoft happens to develop for us, rather than having access to a range of community-developed applications. Promising a "twiiter app" on the Zune HD while I think about the capabilities of something like TwitterDeck on the iPod Touch is a bit unsettling. I am also concerned about missing out on the wide range of selections available for the Touch, including some first-rate games, utilities, etc. Your typical response to this one is likely: "If apps are important to you then the iPod Touch is the obvious choice." That may be so, but I am disappointed that Microsoft didn't surprise us with something better.
I think that pretty much covers my areas of concern. I don't care about having a camera on my device, so there is no difference there. To be honest, if #1 (the built-in speaker) were there I might be able to ignore #3 for a while....
Discussion about
Heavily Conflicted between Zune HD and iPod Touch!!
1. The lack of built-in speaker on the ZuneHD can be easily remedied with a portable speaker with a dock/line-in. The built-in speaker on the iPod Touch, a least the 2G, is not that loud.
2. I don't think podcasts "sync" via wifi on the Touch either. You can download podcasts directly from the iTunes store, but I don't think it syncs in a way that iTunes on the desktop handles podcasts.
3. Yes, the App store is one advantage that the Touch has for now. The fact that MS doesn't release the ZuneHD worldwide may deter developers too. MS really needs to get their act together.
2. I don't think podcasts "sync" via wifi on the Touch either. You can download podcasts directly from the iTunes store, but I don't think it syncs in a way that iTunes on the desktop handles podcasts.
3. Yes, the App store is one advantage that the Touch has for now. The fact that MS doesn't release the ZuneHD worldwide may deter developers too. MS really needs to get their act together.
#1: Well, there's no real challenge to that. If that's a necessary feature for you then go with the iPod.
#2: Everything on the Zune HD will sync wirelessly with your computer. It doesn't look like you can download podcasts over the wifi directly on the zune but if you sync it with your computer it'll update them. the iPod touch doesn't have any similar feature.
#3: Ya, that's kinda a bummer. They do have an XNA expansion that works for Zune HD but it doesn't provide access to any 3D api's or anything fancy. There's also no centralized store to buy games from although people are welcome to side load them as has been done with the past zunes. On that note, though, Microsoft and some close partners are making games and apps for the zune hd that look pretty awesome(Project Gotham Racing for one) so it's not like there's nothing to look forward to.
#2: Everything on the Zune HD will sync wirelessly with your computer. It doesn't look like you can download podcasts over the wifi directly on the zune but if you sync it with your computer it'll update them. the iPod touch doesn't have any similar feature.
#3: Ya, that's kinda a bummer. They do have an XNA expansion that works for Zune HD but it doesn't provide access to any 3D api's or anything fancy. There's also no centralized store to buy games from although people are welcome to side load them as has been done with the past zunes. On that note, though, Microsoft and some close partners are making games and apps for the zune hd that look pretty awesome(Project Gotham Racing for one) so it's not like there's nothing to look forward to.
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The speaker is pretty huge for me too as I would love to be able to listen with friends or shoot some hoops while I play some tunes... The speaker was one of the biggest improvements on the iPod Touch 2G and somehow Microsoft missed it! As for the app store, no one really knows how it will pan out... Microsoft needs a press conference about it or something...
Dude, there is no way you "shoot some hoops" while using the built-in speaker on an iPod Touch. It basically exists for alert sounds (like an alarm clock), and game sound effects. You're talking about an 1/16W, mono speaker. It is not a boombox. Think about your cellphone's speakerphone function, then subtract a bit.
There are plenty of Dock options for the previous Zunes, and there's no reason to believe more won't be coming out for this device.
There are some great battery powered speakers out there, too. Small and efficient, and completely unrelated to what product you're plugging them in to.
There are plenty of Dock options for the previous Zunes, and there's no reason to believe more won't be coming out for this device.
There are some great battery powered speakers out there, too. Small and efficient, and completely unrelated to what product you're plugging them in to.
I have a Zune 80. (Never owned/likely never will own an iPod.) I have the A/V Dock kit with mine, and I just hook it up to some cheap Coby speakers I got for Christmas and it's great!! With the dock hooked up, you can operate it with a remote control, which is awesome. You can also hook it up to the TV with the dock and stream HD videos to your tv. (Not with my old Zune, of course.. just regular video for it.) The ipod touch, to my knowledge, doesn't stream HD. The dock is small enough to take with you when traveling.. you just need something to play it on. Small speakers, if you've got them. Or, I've hooked mine up to the A/V components on the front of a TV before when traveling just to play the music. That does add to the total cost some, but it's a great accessory.
Like a previous replier said, podcasts you're already subscribed to will sync wirelessly. It has to be the same network your computer (with the Zune software and media) is on, so it won't do that when traveling, unless you bring your laptop and change the wireless network the Zune is set to connect to (which isn't hard to do.)
As far as apps go, If they were your main priority, you'd have already bought an ipod touch. But since you're still considering the Zune, I'd wait another month or two and see what comes out for the Zune.
In my opinion (based on owning the Zune 80, and what I've read about ipod touch and zune HD), the zune is the way to go if you primarily want a media device. I'd go ipod if you prefer the internet in your pocket... that also plays media. Or, if you want both.. wait and see how the Zune apps develop.
Like a previous replier said, podcasts you're already subscribed to will sync wirelessly. It has to be the same network your computer (with the Zune software and media) is on, so it won't do that when traveling, unless you bring your laptop and change the wireless network the Zune is set to connect to (which isn't hard to do.)
As far as apps go, If they were your main priority, you'd have already bought an ipod touch. But since you're still considering the Zune, I'd wait another month or two and see what comes out for the Zune.
In my opinion (based on owning the Zune 80, and what I've read about ipod touch and zune HD), the zune is the way to go if you primarily want a media device. I'd go ipod if you prefer the internet in your pocket... that also plays media. Or, if you want both.. wait and see how the Zune apps develop.
I'm in the same boat as you and agree with your advice. I have an 80 as well and just picked up my HD today. I care more about media playback than apps. The browser is good enough on the HD and media playback is better by far. Hopefully Microsoft follows through with some real killer apps (remote desktop client, pandora, etc would be nice). I have a netbook for everything else.
This cnet first look video was just posted. cnettv.cnet.com/microsoft-zune-hd/9742-1_53-500770... It pretty much solidifies my opinion: if you want a media player, get the zune; if you want a "do everything gizmo" get the touch. Hope it helps!
I find this all very confusing ... you are saying "all in one" device like its a BAD thing and all the media playing (video/music files) both devices do.. and both devices screen res is the same so HD files don't really matter either on such a small screen... so why is the zune a better "media player"?
No, all in one certainly isn't bad. But.. think of it this way. If media is your *main* priority in getting a device of this type (which it would be for me, but of course not for everyone), imagine the Zune HD and the iPod Touch had the same browser and app selection. Then, which one would you pick based on media options..? I think in that case, the Zune HD is better than the iPod Touch.
There's nothing wrong with the iPod Touch and its being an all-in-one device, but if I were in the market for a new player, I'd prefer the one that was the best *player.* I'm maybe a little bias in my opinion, as I've never used an iPod of any sort, but I think with the Touch, media is just like one feature among many, whereas with the Zune HD, media is the main feature.
As far as why the media options for the Zune are better: watching video on the devices isn't much different, but being able to stream HD video on your TV from the Zune HD is what's really pretty killer about it. And the Zune Pass subscription service is awesome. It's a great deal, and the best way to digest a lot of music. I believe there are subscription music apps for the iPod Touch, but, again, those are apps, so you can't use them and anything else at the same time.. it's one feature among many. With Zune Pass, subscription music is essentially part of your collection, so you can listen to fresh, new music all the time, and still play games or whatever at the same time.
Clearer?
There's nothing wrong with the iPod Touch and its being an all-in-one device, but if I were in the market for a new player, I'd prefer the one that was the best *player.* I'm maybe a little bias in my opinion, as I've never used an iPod of any sort, but I think with the Touch, media is just like one feature among many, whereas with the Zune HD, media is the main feature.
As far as why the media options for the Zune are better: watching video on the devices isn't much different, but being able to stream HD video on your TV from the Zune HD is what's really pretty killer about it. And the Zune Pass subscription service is awesome. It's a great deal, and the best way to digest a lot of music. I believe there are subscription music apps for the iPod Touch, but, again, those are apps, so you can't use them and anything else at the same time.. it's one feature among many. With Zune Pass, subscription music is essentially part of your collection, so you can listen to fresh, new music all the time, and still play games or whatever at the same time.
Clearer?
no, not clearer at all
they do they same stuff, but with apps and product support the Touch does much more
People get mp3 players to avoid crappy radio and commercials so why is that a good feature
Zune Pass is $15 dollars a month to get whats on Pandora, Last.FM, Slacker, etc. for free... (which the touch does)
the music is the same, video the same, browser is better on the touch, apps 10x better on the touch
clearer-er?
they do they same stuff, but with apps and product support the Touch does much more
People get mp3 players to avoid crappy radio and commercials so why is that a good feature
Zune Pass is $15 dollars a month to get whats on Pandora, Last.FM, Slacker, etc. for free... (which the touch does)
the music is the same, video the same, browser is better on the touch, apps 10x better on the touch
clearer-er?
Just to defend the Zune Pass, thats $15 to listen to whatever music you want as you choose. Pandora is great for random music listening but not close to Zune pass. Plus you get to keep 10 songs a month forever so not only do you get to listen to all the music you want but get to keep 10 songs for the price of a CD. Not to mention you can't stream pandora offline, or use any other app while listening to Pandora so that actually goes against the touch.
Its a different style of thought.
Basically I had a choice between a touch and one of the lil flash zunes. I got a little flash zune. Why you ask, when the touch can do so much more? I dont need the "so much more". Its the same with my dSLR I coulda gotten the recent canon with HD video shooting capabilities. But I didnt, I didnt need it and so it wasnt a model I considered.
So really, from what I've been reading, if you just want an evolution of the PMP a zune would seemingly be the best bet. If you want something to do everything, to give you the options of all, thats just as good, but then the ipod touch wold be your best bet.
Personally I won't be getting either (at least for the time being) because I have a tiny music player already that plays my music. I have my G1 which does everything and more that I could do on the touch....shrug.
There is nothing wrong with wanting a do everything well device. There is nothing wrong with a couple do one thing great devices. Its just different outlooks.
Also I use pandora and last.fm (mostly on the G1 while I dont have my mp3 player) but they don't compare in the least to the zune pass, so don't knock that unless you've used it :P
Basically I had a choice between a touch and one of the lil flash zunes. I got a little flash zune. Why you ask, when the touch can do so much more? I dont need the "so much more". Its the same with my dSLR I coulda gotten the recent canon with HD video shooting capabilities. But I didnt, I didnt need it and so it wasnt a model I considered.
So really, from what I've been reading, if you just want an evolution of the PMP a zune would seemingly be the best bet. If you want something to do everything, to give you the options of all, thats just as good, but then the ipod touch wold be your best bet.
Personally I won't be getting either (at least for the time being) because I have a tiny music player already that plays my music. I have my G1 which does everything and more that I could do on the touch....shrug.
There is nothing wrong with wanting a do everything well device. There is nothing wrong with a couple do one thing great devices. Its just different outlooks.
Also I use pandora and last.fm (mostly on the G1 while I dont have my mp3 player) but they don't compare in the least to the zune pass, so don't knock that unless you've used it :P
Zune HD is, by all reports, the better device for media playback, including FM and HD radio, HD output, nicer screen, better interface designed SPECIFICALLY for media playback, and so on.
The iPod can do MORE by way of apps, but the media playback experience is not as good as the Zune HD. It's kind of a quality vs quantity thing. I have no need for running apps on my MP3 player - I have a smartphone for that. I also don't want to play media on my smartphone, though it can play back music and video.
I think you're underestimating how much the interface matters when using a media player. The iPod Touch UI is horrendous as a media player because it's designed around being a multi-use device. The Zune interface is all about media, media discovery, radio, etc.
That's not to say the iPod Touch isn't a great device for people who want the features it has. But the Zune HD is the better device for someone more concerned with having a PMP.
The iPod can do MORE by way of apps, but the media playback experience is not as good as the Zune HD. It's kind of a quality vs quantity thing. I have no need for running apps on my MP3 player - I have a smartphone for that. I also don't want to play media on my smartphone, though it can play back music and video.
I think you're underestimating how much the interface matters when using a media player. The iPod Touch UI is horrendous as a media player because it's designed around being a multi-use device. The Zune interface is all about media, media discovery, radio, etc.
That's not to say the iPod Touch isn't a great device for people who want the features it has. But the Zune HD is the better device for someone more concerned with having a PMP.
You're confused as to why the Zune HD is a better media player?
Radio - FM and HD
Better screen - iPod has higher resolution, but OLED screens look a lot better. That's imortant for media playback as well as general use, and the extra pixel on the iPod are wasted on widescreen playback, which is the norm
UI designed around media and music discovery and not compromised by accommodating extra features
Zune Pass - there are similar services available on the iPod, but none are as good as the Zune Pass complete with Smart DJ, picks, channels, etc.
Zune desktop software is much better than iTunes at managing content and discovering new content
Optional HD video output
I realise those things may not matter to you, but they do matter to people who want the best possible MEDIA device and don't care about having apps and media on the same device. I use my phone for apps and communication. I use my Zune for music, podcasts, and video, and that's the way I like it.
When you say things like 'both can play music and video' you may as well say 'both run apps'. It's true, but it's not the whole story.
Radio - FM and HD
Better screen - iPod has higher resolution, but OLED screens look a lot better. That's imortant for media playback as well as general use, and the extra pixel on the iPod are wasted on widescreen playback, which is the norm
UI designed around media and music discovery and not compromised by accommodating extra features
Zune Pass - there are similar services available on the iPod, but none are as good as the Zune Pass complete with Smart DJ, picks, channels, etc.
Zune desktop software is much better than iTunes at managing content and discovering new content
Optional HD video output
I realise those things may not matter to you, but they do matter to people who want the best possible MEDIA device and don't care about having apps and media on the same device. I use my phone for apps and communication. I use my Zune for music, podcasts, and video, and that's the way I like it.
When you say things like 'both can play music and video' you may as well say 'both run apps'. It's true, but it's not the whole story.
You can sync podcasts wirelessly from your computer, but you cannot access the via the on-device marketplace.
Wow. Great replies. In looking through the Zune 4.0 software last evening I noted the Apps tab which has a few entries. The potential is certainly there for great apps on the Zune HD, so perhaps it is just a matter of time. They do, however, need to open this up.
I thought it about is some more and realize that most of the time I might play an app on my Zune/iPod I have a laptop with me anyway, and I have a Blackberry for things requiring GPS or other real connectivity, so perhaps all I should be looking for is the best media device -- which right now would be the Zune HD.
I thought it about is some more and realize that most of the time I might play an app on my Zune/iPod I have a laptop with me anyway, and I have a Blackberry for things requiring GPS or other real connectivity, so perhaps all I should be looking for is the best media device -- which right now would be the Zune HD.
Ironically, Microsoft (for the moment at least) has the "ooh SHINY" win here. After last Wednesday's disappointing iPod Touch showing, and the more than vague possibility of them screwing over early adopters of the 3rd gen Touch by adding a camera in the not-too-distant future, I'd say get the Zune HD. It has HD FM radio, your HD video out, is cheaper, has an OLED screen (drool....), longer battery life... and the list goes on. The Touch is great - it's what I have. But if I were to make the decision from your position RIGHT NOW, I'd say Zune HD. The speaker is AWESOME to have, and it's one superior feature of the Touch, but it's not a deal-breaker. The Zune has lots to offer, and I'd say drink some of the Microsoft Kool Aid for the time being, and lay off the Apple stuff. Until they come out with the hallucinogenic Kool Aid called the iTablet...
theres also that little, teeny, tiny issue of the Zune HD not working with any of your Mac computers........... .... ...
For what the Zune HD is made to do, it does well. The music playback is solid, the UI intuitive.
What does the zune not do well?
1. Browse the internet - it's slower than the touch by quite a bit, frequently the screen becomes unresponsive and clippy.
2. Anything but media - Theres only eight apps for the Zune, and from the three I've tried they feel like a sub-par 99 cent apps from iTunes. Obviously Microsoft will make an effort to introduce developers to the platform (that's nothing new), but it would do them well to hurry.
3. Download anything wirelessly - Microsoft is probably a year behind Apple as far as online distribution. No wireless video downloads. No wireless podcast syncs. No wireless channel syncs. All you _can_ get are single song/albums and apps.
Zunes got a great piece of hardware, but strangely enough, the world's largest software firm hasn't kept up with the current application standard.
Seems to me Microsoft is following two years behind someone else's innovation...
What does the zune not do well?
1. Browse the internet - it's slower than the touch by quite a bit, frequently the screen becomes unresponsive and clippy.
2. Anything but media - Theres only eight apps for the Zune, and from the three I've tried they feel like a sub-par 99 cent apps from iTunes. Obviously Microsoft will make an effort to introduce developers to the platform (that's nothing new), but it would do them well to hurry.
3. Download anything wirelessly - Microsoft is probably a year behind Apple as far as online distribution. No wireless video downloads. No wireless podcast syncs. No wireless channel syncs. All you _can_ get are single song/albums and apps.
Zunes got a great piece of hardware, but strangely enough, the world's largest software firm hasn't kept up with the current application standard.
Seems to me Microsoft is following two years behind someone else's innovation...
thats the biggest amount of bad news yet... everyone else seems to be saying its all roses but I appreciate your candor...
I agree. Good reply.
I guess when I stated "best media device" I was primarily concentrated on the hardware: chiefly the OLED screen and Tegra processor. I also believe that the Zune software is significantly ahead of iTunes in terms of usability and just overall look-and-feel. Many people on both the Mac and Windows sides agree that Apple really needs to do a major rev on iTunes, as it isn't even up to date in terms of the Mac architecture.
All of that being said, i was pretty disappointed that Microsoft didn't have a surprise "app store" of some sort ready for us yesterday. Their comments on the topic are also very underwhelming, and almost dismiss the concept of a broad apps offering as being important to the Zune HD.
bryce:
i am concerned about your #1 and #3 comments. Other reports on the browser have been generally positive, but perhaps are not comparing it to Safari on the iTouch. #3 brings up my concern with podcast syncing -- Does the IPod Touch allow me to subscribe to and/or update podcasts without docking, and without having to have a computer running iTunes on somewhere else on the wifi network?
I guess when I stated "best media device" I was primarily concentrated on the hardware: chiefly the OLED screen and Tegra processor. I also believe that the Zune software is significantly ahead of iTunes in terms of usability and just overall look-and-feel. Many people on both the Mac and Windows sides agree that Apple really needs to do a major rev on iTunes, as it isn't even up to date in terms of the Mac architecture.
All of that being said, i was pretty disappointed that Microsoft didn't have a surprise "app store" of some sort ready for us yesterday. Their comments on the topic are also very underwhelming, and almost dismiss the concept of a broad apps offering as being important to the Zune HD.
bryce:
i am concerned about your #1 and #3 comments. Other reports on the browser have been generally positive, but perhaps are not comparing it to Safari on the iTouch. #3 brings up my concern with podcast syncing -- Does the IPod Touch allow me to subscribe to and/or update podcasts without docking, and without having to have a computer running iTunes on somewhere else on the wifi network?
well the zune software may be the best thing ever but it does me no good as a have 4 iPod products (half were given to me) that it won't work with....
also, what does the hardware matter if they play the same stuff... they play music, play movies, and pictures... is there something radically better about how the Zune HD does it? I'm not attacking you or anyone, I just noticed lots of people saying the Zune was the better "media player" and I don't understand why... (I don't own an iPod Touch btw, I have 2 shuffles, a nano, and an iPod 5th gen)
also, what does the hardware matter if they play the same stuff... they play music, play movies, and pictures... is there something radically better about how the Zune HD does it? I'm not attacking you or anyone, I just noticed lots of people saying the Zune was the better "media player" and I don't understand why... (I don't own an iPod Touch btw, I have 2 shuffles, a nano, and an iPod 5th gen)
I don't have the iTouch or the Zune, but reviewers (e.g. CNET) have all been stating that the OLED screen on the Zune HD provides significantly better video quality (brightness, contrast, etc.) than the iPod Touch. This is just the basic difference between the OLED and backlit LED technologies I think. An iTouch rev to OLED will fix this, but I am thinking that we won't see anything along those lines until January-ish at best.
The reason I see it as the better media device is because of the HD out, OLED screen, and HD radio. What does the Touch have? A speaker. I still think the Touch is the better device overall because of the apps, but in the media department, it seems that Microsoft paid more attention to the details.
the whole reason people buy mp3 players is to get away from radio... radio now is practically unlistenable and with great tunes and pandora/last.fm out there - radio is dead! (and for sports, I watch that on a big screen instead of listening to it on crappy earbuds..)
again, I didn't think video looked good enough on the Zune HD to switch... it looked comparable but the features on the Touch keep going where the Zune they end...
again, I didn't think video looked good enough on the Zune HD to switch... it looked comparable but the features on the Touch keep going where the Zune they end...
Yes, I'm not sure about the utility of radio either, but for some reason they are adding this to devices (e.g. FM on the new iPod Nanos, HD radio on the new Zunes, etc.).
I think the video quality comes down completely to the OLED screen, as well as to the ability to display 720p video via the dock, pointing to higher-powered video processing. OLEDs are brighter, deeper, less prone to viewing angle, and consume a lot less power -- leading to better battery life. This is a no-brainer as a future iPod update. For whatever reason Microsoft got there first, but I'm sure Apple will soon follow.
The only really compelling differentiators of the iPod touch in my mind are: 1) the apps store and 2) the availability of accessories and integration options. #1 is what is bothering me the most currently. I honestly still haven't reached a conclusion.
I think the video quality comes down completely to the OLED screen, as well as to the ability to display 720p video via the dock, pointing to higher-powered video processing. OLEDs are brighter, deeper, less prone to viewing angle, and consume a lot less power -- leading to better battery life. This is a no-brainer as a future iPod update. For whatever reason Microsoft got there first, but I'm sure Apple will soon follow.
The only really compelling differentiators of the iPod touch in my mind are: 1) the apps store and 2) the availability of accessories and integration options. #1 is what is bothering me the most currently. I honestly still haven't reached a conclusion.
they need to have them set up at Best Buy side by side with the same video, but I think overall you would be surprised at how similar they looked....
iPod Touch 480×320 3.5 inch screen
Zune HD 480×272 3.3 inch screen
Standard definition Television is 720×480 (480i) for reference...
so yes the Touch's screen is slightly BIGGER and slightly HIGHER resolution
you can say OLED's are better, but only to the extent that you can ACTUALLY SEE... these are small screens with few pixels and low resolution pictures (about half the res of SD).. there are definitely diminishing returns... as the screens get bigger, the returns on quality will be much more pronounced...
iPod Touch 480×320 3.5 inch screen
Zune HD 480×272 3.3 inch screen
Standard definition Television is 720×480 (480i) for reference...
so yes the Touch's screen is slightly BIGGER and slightly HIGHER resolution
you can say OLED's are better, but only to the extent that you can ACTUALLY SEE... these are small screens with few pixels and low resolution pictures (about half the res of SD).. there are definitely diminishing returns... as the screens get bigger, the returns on quality will be much more pronounced...
I saw video (hd video to boot) on the zune hd and it wasn't like a revelation or anything... again, maybe the specs are better but I have seen videos on both and they looked great... I want to see a side by side comparison with the same video...
People bring up the lack of apps and there are some ups and downs to the situation to consider. Right now, MS is saying development of apps will be limited. That is to say it will be mostly internal or with partners that MS works very closely with. With that being the case, I think we're going to see two things in comparison to apps with the Touch and iPhone. First, I think we're going to see less apps. Since, as of now, not just anyone can make apps for the device, there's going to be less to pick from. Secondly, I think the overall quality of apps will be much better. Some of the apps I've heard for the Touch include one that makes it look like there's beer in your device that moves as you rotate the device and one that just changes the background image. Not really stuff to jump for joy over. So while the Zune HD won't be getting new apps daily, I think each time that it does get apps, it'll be something to take a look at. Plus, it's been said that (at least for now) all Zune apps will be free.
As far as the external speaker is concerned, there are a few decent portable speaker docks that you might want to consider. The audio's better than it is with the tiny speaker you get with the Touch and it can be louder. If I was torn between these devices, that'd be my preferred solution regardless of which device I chose in regards to this issue, making a built in speaker a moot point.
As far as the external speaker is concerned, there are a few decent portable speaker docks that you might want to consider. The audio's better than it is with the tiny speaker you get with the Touch and it can be louder. If I was torn between these devices, that'd be my preferred solution regardless of which device I chose in regards to this issue, making a built in speaker a moot point.
Not sure I agree with your analysis here, for a few reasons. First to your point about internally developed apps: This could be the case, or it might not be. The indication so far is that the HD is a great media device, but the other apps feel a bit...tacked on. I haven't heard anyone raving about the apps.
I think your sentiment is a bit backwards. YOU'RE saying that because MS develops the apps, they'll all be great, quality apps. I think it would be more accurate to say that because MS develops them, you're not going to get CRAP apps with no point (although some frat boy somewhere is likely to rate the beer pouring app higher than any of us, so "quality" can be a relative term). In short, just because MS develops all the apps does not guarantee quality - it guarantees that the apps will have some sort of universally useful function.
The lack of a SDK also guarantees no one will innovate outside Microsoft's box, which ISN'T a good thing - there aren't just two categories of iPhone apps, native and crap. There's a TON of forward-thinking developers who have done some truly astounding and innovative things on the iPhone. Not allowing this (for the time being) on the Zune will not make it a better device than the iPod Touch, it will limit it's scope considerably.
As to the speaker, speaking from experience as a 2nd Gen Touch owner, I use the speaker for a few limited things: Watching web video, gaming, and alarms/alerts. And I don't want to sit the thing in a dock to do this, because when I do these things I'm most often on the go or where I don't have access to a dock. I agree, the lack of a speaker isn't a deal-breaker, which I already indicated above. But it doesn't render it a moot point for all situations, which is why Apple included the speaker in the first place. Cheers!
I think your sentiment is a bit backwards. YOU'RE saying that because MS develops the apps, they'll all be great, quality apps. I think it would be more accurate to say that because MS develops them, you're not going to get CRAP apps with no point (although some frat boy somewhere is likely to rate the beer pouring app higher than any of us, so "quality" can be a relative term). In short, just because MS develops all the apps does not guarantee quality - it guarantees that the apps will have some sort of universally useful function.
The lack of a SDK also guarantees no one will innovate outside Microsoft's box, which ISN'T a good thing - there aren't just two categories of iPhone apps, native and crap. There's a TON of forward-thinking developers who have done some truly astounding and innovative things on the iPhone. Not allowing this (for the time being) on the Zune will not make it a better device than the iPod Touch, it will limit it's scope considerably.
As to the speaker, speaking from experience as a 2nd Gen Touch owner, I use the speaker for a few limited things: Watching web video, gaming, and alarms/alerts. And I don't want to sit the thing in a dock to do this, because when I do these things I'm most often on the go or where I don't have access to a dock. I agree, the lack of a speaker isn't a deal-breaker, which I already indicated above. But it doesn't render it a moot point for all situations, which is why Apple included the speaker in the first place. Cheers!
agreed, everyone knows connecting speakers or a dock is superior for quality, but not at the sake of convenience! the built-in speaker provides instant gratification for these few things and for that it is better.. hopefully Zune HD 2 will include it like apple did... nothing wrong with a mulligan...
I actually think it's a VERY good first iteration, and the HD needs somewhere to go, so why throw everything in all at once? Same deal with the Zune Marketplace, or whatever their app store will be called. Apple did this as well - there was no speaker or app store in the first gen iPhones/iPod Touches. I really even hesitate to compare the two, because you're comparing a 3rd gen device to a 1st gen device. Sure, MS should learn from Apple's previous iterations, and I think they have - the Zune has a greater feature-set than the Touch did on the first go-round, and releasing large features like an SDK or an App Store or a speaker or a CAMERA *sniff* are best done in steps, rather than giving the consumer everything they need right away - you do that, and you won't see them again until your Uber-gadget breaks and they need a new one.
hogwash! you compare whatever item to whatever the best of that current item is!! everyone knows this! microsoft knew and they tried valiantly! I want a Zune HD... and a Touch.. I just can't honestly say which is better and in that case the incumbent wins! It is just the more stable product with an established app store and user base which guarantees support and accessories, etc...
I'm not saying that this is a smart consumer strategy, I'm saying this is a smart company strategy. And it is - Microsoft tried valiantly...to come out with a device with a future that was also superior in enough ways to the iPod Touch that it was a desirable alternative. And they succeeded. As I've argued before, better is relative. I agree, the iPod is the better all-around device. I also want a HD.
for real! first I'm getting my big screen plasma (soon), then a Dolby TrueHD surround sound receiver, then all these holiday video games (Call of Duty MW2, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Uncharted 2, etc.), and then, with any luck, one of these great PMP's....
I thought I'd just update the thread I started earlier this week and let you all know that I've come to a decision: I will get an iPod Touch 3rd Gen.
My reasons:
1. Primarily apps. I was listening to MacBreak Weekly, which I have listened to ever since the iPhone came out, and said to myself, "What am I thinking?" The only Apple product I own right now is a 1st gen iPod Nano. I have been listening for years about great apps I could try on an iPhone or iTouch, and since my company gives me a Blackberry the iTouch seems to be it. I think the Zune HD will eventually have apps, but not anything at the level of the iPod Touch.
2. Better web browsing. Several reports point to the IE6 mobile browser on the Zune HD being rudimentary and slow, almost like it is being emulated (maybe it is?).
3. Built in speaker. Yes, this feature turns out to be very important to me. I like to listen casually to my podcasts while getting ready in the morning, and having to find and plug in a speaker would be an additional pain. I currently use my Blackberry for this purpose, but it doesn't remember where you leave off in the podcast between power on/offs.
From a media playback standpoint I think the Zune HD probably has an advantage, especially when combined with the Zune Pass. However, since 99.5% of my listening is to podcasts and audiobooks this is not a big feature for me. The Zune HD also probably excels in video viewing, especially with its OLED screen and native 16:9 aspect ratio (those extra LED pixels on the iPod Touch aren't used for 16:9 video, which is mainly what I watch). However, I generally have my laptop with me and generally can watch my video on the bigger screen, both on the plane and in the hotel room, so this feature also didn't rank as high.
I was disappointed last week when Apple didn't do anything significant to the iPod Touch, but they *did* bring the price down plus add a lot of internal features that improve performance and likely will do so more in the future. Oddly enough, there is apparently also an FM receiver/transmitter in there, although it is not activated.
So, my conclusion is that I will join the masses in the iPod crowd. I will continue to monitor what Microsoft does in terms of building the kind of portable computer/media player/phone that everyone wants. 2-3 years from now I may bring this question up again....
My reasons:
1. Primarily apps. I was listening to MacBreak Weekly, which I have listened to ever since the iPhone came out, and said to myself, "What am I thinking?" The only Apple product I own right now is a 1st gen iPod Nano. I have been listening for years about great apps I could try on an iPhone or iTouch, and since my company gives me a Blackberry the iTouch seems to be it. I think the Zune HD will eventually have apps, but not anything at the level of the iPod Touch.
2. Better web browsing. Several reports point to the IE6 mobile browser on the Zune HD being rudimentary and slow, almost like it is being emulated (maybe it is?).
3. Built in speaker. Yes, this feature turns out to be very important to me. I like to listen casually to my podcasts while getting ready in the morning, and having to find and plug in a speaker would be an additional pain. I currently use my Blackberry for this purpose, but it doesn't remember where you leave off in the podcast between power on/offs.
From a media playback standpoint I think the Zune HD probably has an advantage, especially when combined with the Zune Pass. However, since 99.5% of my listening is to podcasts and audiobooks this is not a big feature for me. The Zune HD also probably excels in video viewing, especially with its OLED screen and native 16:9 aspect ratio (those extra LED pixels on the iPod Touch aren't used for 16:9 video, which is mainly what I watch). However, I generally have my laptop with me and generally can watch my video on the bigger screen, both on the plane and in the hotel room, so this feature also didn't rank as high.
I was disappointed last week when Apple didn't do anything significant to the iPod Touch, but they *did* bring the price down plus add a lot of internal features that improve performance and likely will do so more in the future. Oddly enough, there is apparently also an FM receiver/transmitter in there, although it is not activated.
So, my conclusion is that I will join the masses in the iPod crowd. I will continue to monitor what Microsoft does in terms of building the kind of portable computer/media player/phone that everyone wants. 2-3 years from now I may bring this question up again....
I was unaware that Apple had apps... thanks for your assistance...
It appears the zune hd has apps too... I think I heard Apple will discontinue apps soon due to the PMP onslaught....
Hmm. You should put a smiley face next to posts that you intend to be tongue-in-cheek.
In response to your reply 2 days ago: Yes, we are all aware that Apple has apps. I was merely pointing out that apps became -- in my personal analysis -- one of the more important criteria in deciding between an iPod Touch and a Zune HD. I am trying to share my personal thoughts and insights as opposed to just snipe at other's posts.
No, I don't think Apple will discontinue the App Store. Ha ha :-|. Yes, the Zune HD has apps, but these appear to be emulated ports for now. I expect we may see some impressive apps in the future, but there is no indication we will have the open marketplace that Apple features right now. TweetDeck, as an example, is an outstanding Twitter app. I am concerned that anything coming out of the Zune "company store" might pale in comparison.
I continue to hear conflicting reviews regarding the Zune HD's audio playback and browser quality, and from sources that I believe to be sincere.
In response to your reply 2 days ago: Yes, we are all aware that Apple has apps. I was merely pointing out that apps became -- in my personal analysis -- one of the more important criteria in deciding between an iPod Touch and a Zune HD. I am trying to share my personal thoughts and insights as opposed to just snipe at other's posts.
No, I don't think Apple will discontinue the App Store. Ha ha :-|. Yes, the Zune HD has apps, but these appear to be emulated ports for now. I expect we may see some impressive apps in the future, but there is no indication we will have the open marketplace that Apple features right now. TweetDeck, as an example, is an outstanding Twitter app. I am concerned that anything coming out of the Zune "company store" might pale in comparison.
I continue to hear conflicting reviews regarding the Zune HD's audio playback and browser quality, and from sources that I believe to be sincere.
I am with you with the audio and browser quality - I don't know who to believe! And I know I should have put smiley faces but my statements were so ridiculous I didn't think anyway would take them as fact... :)
I am sure the Zune HD will get some great apps - period. :)
and I'm not sniping, I'm just trying to have some fun... this zune hd has led to more arguing than I thought possible... remember, this is a fun social site!!!!
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I am sure the Zune HD will get some great apps - period. :)
and I'm not sniping, I'm just trying to have some fun... this zune hd has led to more arguing than I thought possible... remember, this is a fun social site!!!!
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See everyone! You can have fun and still be conflicted about buying a MP3 player!! LOL
Man, this discussion is full of hatred as you can see from all these smiley faces. Maybe all this laughter is really tears...
apparently some people do.... you know - the ones still talking like a week after launch... this has been the most drawn out nonsense yet... luckily for every other product the hype dies down after about 2 days instead of 2 weeks...
I know you've made your decision but I decided to chime in for others who may be considering an iPod or a Zune.
I'm actually considering moving from the Zune because of the App Store.
Apple has empowered developers to exercise free reign on how they want consumers to use their applications. I consider my iPod (I have a touch 2G and 1G) to be a music device first and foremost, with apps being the secondary use of my device. As such, when I want to play a game, I want to listen to music from my MP3s, not gaming sounds (or both, but that's not an option). The problem is that Apple doesn't care about that - they let apps mute your music without warning and without giving you recourse. (I actually blogged about this here: www.macgasm.net/2009/09/14/dont-upgrade-iphone-3-1...)
I happen to think Apple did a nice job with their apps. I'll use the iPod as a gaming device. However, for a music player, I'm compelled to go with the Zune HD. Sure, Microsoft doesn't have a powerful app store, but that's what's doing it for me. I saw the Zune HD at the gdgt party in NYC just a few weeks ago, and it was great. It's a really sleek device and Microsoft understands that people still prefer their multimedia. Apple lost sight of that.
So - how do YOU want to use your device? As a music player or as a portable gaming player? If you're looking at a Zune, you're with me that music/multimedia is really priority. Thus, don't waste your time on an Apple. Microsoft did something right here. I can't wait to get my hands on a real music-playing portable device.
I'm actually considering moving from the Zune because of the App Store.
Apple has empowered developers to exercise free reign on how they want consumers to use their applications. I consider my iPod (I have a touch 2G and 1G) to be a music device first and foremost, with apps being the secondary use of my device. As such, when I want to play a game, I want to listen to music from my MP3s, not gaming sounds (or both, but that's not an option). The problem is that Apple doesn't care about that - they let apps mute your music without warning and without giving you recourse. (I actually blogged about this here: www.macgasm.net/2009/09/14/dont-upgrade-iphone-3-1...)
I happen to think Apple did a nice job with their apps. I'll use the iPod as a gaming device. However, for a music player, I'm compelled to go with the Zune HD. Sure, Microsoft doesn't have a powerful app store, but that's what's doing it for me. I saw the Zune HD at the gdgt party in NYC just a few weeks ago, and it was great. It's a really sleek device and Microsoft understands that people still prefer their multimedia. Apple lost sight of that.
So - how do YOU want to use your device? As a music player or as a portable gaming player? If you're looking at a Zune, you're with me that music/multimedia is really priority. Thus, don't waste your time on an Apple. Microsoft did something right here. I can't wait to get my hands on a real music-playing portable device.
I understand what you are talking about, but I think the "apps interupting music" thing was purposefully left up to each application designer, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The Civilization Revolution app, for example, prompts you with several options to continue to play your music vs the in-game music and whether to include game sound effects with either. This is very nice. A Hoyle Video Poker app on the other hand just stops your music and plays over the top. This is one game where I could definitely continue listening to music or a podcast while I play.
Your argument seems to be for dedicated devices, which I feel are more on the way out than in. I am so impressed with the iPod Touch's browser, Twiitter apps, weather apps, etc - many of which are free AND very high quality - that I am seriously considering moving up to an iPhone next year - primarily just to get the constant connectivity.
BTW, I have also determined that the built-in speaker, while not optimum, is a very nice-to-have feature that I use regularly.
I do like what Microsoft has done with the Zune HD, but have to wonder if they are addressing a shrinkng market for media-only devices?
Your argument seems to be for dedicated devices, which I feel are more on the way out than in. I am so impressed with the iPod Touch's browser, Twiitter apps, weather apps, etc - many of which are free AND very high quality - that I am seriously considering moving up to an iPhone next year - primarily just to get the constant connectivity.
BTW, I have also determined that the built-in speaker, while not optimum, is a very nice-to-have feature that I use regularly.
I do like what Microsoft has done with the Zune HD, but have to wonder if they are addressing a shrinkng market for media-only devices?
Microsoft has decided they want that shrinking market and members of that shrinking market love it. It has shrunk so much though that apple doesn't care about it and almost every other media device is integrating features to make a more compelling product.
This is the same argument Nintendo has used in the Wii/DS. The Wii and DS (before DSi) have no multimedia functions, yet they are leading all console sales this generation. Meanwhile the 360 and PS3 and the PSP for portables do much more than play games, yet they are behind in sales. Because they do more though, I use them much more than the Wii/DS counterparts. I use my PS360 to watch DVD's/HD DVD's/Blu-ray's, stream music, watch Netflix, watch Video on Demand, view slideshows, help Folding@Home, and interact with people online. The Wii sits there as it doesn't get very many game releases and has limited online capabilities.
They are all great video game consoles though, but I use the ones that can do more more often.... I imagine I would feel the same about the Zune HD/iPod Touch scenario...
This is the same argument Nintendo has used in the Wii/DS. The Wii and DS (before DSi) have no multimedia functions, yet they are leading all console sales this generation. Meanwhile the 360 and PS3 and the PSP for portables do much more than play games, yet they are behind in sales. Because they do more though, I use them much more than the Wii/DS counterparts. I use my PS360 to watch DVD's/HD DVD's/Blu-ray's, stream music, watch Netflix, watch Video on Demand, view slideshows, help Folding@Home, and interact with people online. The Wii sits there as it doesn't get very many game releases and has limited online capabilities.
They are all great video game consoles though, but I use the ones that can do more more often.... I imagine I would feel the same about the Zune HD/iPod Touch scenario...
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