After having an bad experience of two new 2TB hard disks becoming faulty within 10 days of operation. It was time for me to look at the DAS/NAS product line to restore my sanity.
So therefore I am looking at the Drobo new line up S and Pro units and the established Netgear ReadyNAS line (NV+ / NVX).
These units will be used in a home/small business environment to stream HD media and other files to two, three machines.
Want to limit the amount of downtime that will caused from one or even two drives becoming faulty.
Also want to have direct access to my files even thou a fault occurring and able to use my existing Samsung 1TB and 1.5TB hard disks in the unit.
It will be great to hear peoples experiences on these units and any suggestions within or out the range.
Happy discussing......
Discussion about
Are drobos worth the money ?
I have a Drobo 2nd gen and a droboshare. On the whole I'm generally positive about my experience. I use the Drobo with a Droboshare as a networked backup device with Retrospect for Mac. This is backing up all my home computers to a 2.2Tb Drobo.
First use was with disk copy / clone utilities such as Super Duper - this created clone copies of my hard disks and of of course this resulted in hundreds of thousands of files on the Drobo - as a networked drive this was not optimal and caused quite some issues in reading directories.
At one point some kind of failure resulted in a corrupted disk ( possibly the Mac, possibly the Droboshare ) - the file allocation table was destroyed - I tried several recovery utilities and did manage to get my files back, but was not happy with the results. I then reformatted the Drobo and now use as a dedicated backup server - Retrospect creates backups in 600Mb chunks - this keeps the file catalog much smaller and less of a concern if I ever need to recover the catalog again.
Upsides - the backups are automatic and generate alerts when late. My 2G Drobo + Droboshare is dedicated to Retrospect backups only.
Downsides - with Droboshare, backing up a 1.5Tb disk took 5 days.
As a backup disk it's a good solution.
As a file server, the performance is not optimal.
I'll be looking at perhaps a DroboPro later this year to see if the better network performance can be achieved. An alternate idea will be a networked Mac Mini with an attached Drobo.
Steve Groom
First use was with disk copy / clone utilities such as Super Duper - this created clone copies of my hard disks and of of course this resulted in hundreds of thousands of files on the Drobo - as a networked drive this was not optimal and caused quite some issues in reading directories.
At one point some kind of failure resulted in a corrupted disk ( possibly the Mac, possibly the Droboshare ) - the file allocation table was destroyed - I tried several recovery utilities and did manage to get my files back, but was not happy with the results. I then reformatted the Drobo and now use as a dedicated backup server - Retrospect creates backups in 600Mb chunks - this keeps the file catalog much smaller and less of a concern if I ever need to recover the catalog again.
Upsides - the backups are automatic and generate alerts when late. My 2G Drobo + Droboshare is dedicated to Retrospect backups only.
Downsides - with Droboshare, backing up a 1.5Tb disk took 5 days.
As a backup disk it's a good solution.
As a file server, the performance is not optimal.
I'll be looking at perhaps a DroboPro later this year to see if the better network performance can be achieved. An alternate idea will be a networked Mac Mini with an attached Drobo.
Steve Groom
I have the first generation Drobo and it has performed well. It replaced the Western Digital My Book (2 Disk Solution) which has failed since I replaced my Drobo. Also to note the advantage of mix and match drive sizes allows for more use of drives, etc.
Would recommend using the Drobo Dashboard software and maximizing the format size to allow for specific growth. This does affect the block size but the size you are talking with 1.5 to 2 TB drives this is minimal.
The final note is that when you roll the costs up of purchasing smaller units to the overall cost of the Drobo; the Drobo's ROI does recapture but not immediately. This will occur over the next couple years of use when you are spending less incremental dollars on drive replacements in order to increase the overall size of the unit.
Good luck shopping......
Would recommend using the Drobo Dashboard software and maximizing the format size to allow for specific growth. This does affect the block size but the size you are talking with 1.5 to 2 TB drives this is minimal.
The final note is that when you roll the costs up of purchasing smaller units to the overall cost of the Drobo; the Drobo's ROI does recapture but not immediately. This will occur over the next couple years of use when you are spending less incremental dollars on drive replacements in order to increase the overall size of the unit.
Good luck shopping......
I'm in the same position, but being on a budget, I'm seriously considering setting up a FreeNAS pc. Obviously a lot more work, but I think it's much more flexible.
freenas.org/doku.php
www.makeuseof.com/tag/convert-your-old-pc-to-netwo...
Has anyone chosen FreeNas over Drobo?
freenas.org/doku.php
www.makeuseof.com/tag/convert-your-old-pc-to-netwo...
Has anyone chosen FreeNas over Drobo?
I'm interested in a Drobo FreeNAS comparison too. And more specially, a DroboShare vs. FreeNAS. I've heard that the share's performance isn't that great and the $200 price point is kind of steep.
I'm currently planing a FreeNAS box, but could be pretty easily convinced to go with the Drobo + Share if it makes sense.
I'm currently planing a FreeNAS box, but could be pretty easily convinced to go with the Drobo + Share if it makes sense.
Hello rebelbob.
I have certainly chosen FreeNas over Drobo. I can see the appeal of Drobo. However, when compared to massive data protection benefits of ZFS file system, and extreme cost of Drobo, it was really easy for me to return my Drobo unit and go with a custom build. For about the same cost of a Drobo unit, you can build a very powerful FreeNAS system that will provide with excellent data protection, support for multiple network protocols, and enough throughput to saturate your gigabit interface. When using RaidZ (ZFS implementation of raid5) system does not require an expensive controller. In fact, ZFS likes interacting directly with the disks without any intermediary distraction. This further reduces the cost of the build simply by relying on any standard onboard disk controller.
I would suggest taking a look at these two links, for FreeNas 8 documents doc.freenas.org and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS for a more in depth look at this amazing file system.
In my personal opinion Drobo is painfully slow. As one of the commentators mentioned, backing up 1.5Tb in 5 days does NOT appeal to me at all. In addition, with Freenas 8, development has come a long way form earlier days of release.
I have certainly chosen FreeNas over Drobo. I can see the appeal of Drobo. However, when compared to massive data protection benefits of ZFS file system, and extreme cost of Drobo, it was really easy for me to return my Drobo unit and go with a custom build. For about the same cost of a Drobo unit, you can build a very powerful FreeNAS system that will provide with excellent data protection, support for multiple network protocols, and enough throughput to saturate your gigabit interface. When using RaidZ (ZFS implementation of raid5) system does not require an expensive controller. In fact, ZFS likes interacting directly with the disks without any intermediary distraction. This further reduces the cost of the build simply by relying on any standard onboard disk controller.
I would suggest taking a look at these two links, for FreeNas 8 documents doc.freenas.org and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS for a more in depth look at this amazing file system.
In my personal opinion Drobo is painfully slow. As one of the commentators mentioned, backing up 1.5Tb in 5 days does NOT appeal to me at all. In addition, with Freenas 8, development has come a long way form earlier days of release.
I've been using a second generation Drobo for a while now, and it's been faultless. I've got it connected via Firewire 400 to an old Mac Mini, and it works like a dream as a shared resource. I still chuckle about the fact the Mini is maybe a quarter of the size of the disk array it's connected to, but it does sit quite well on top of it. Given it's connected to a computer it's not technically being used as a NAS, but it was still a better option than a "normal" USB disk for future proofing.
In terms of are they worth it... as another commenter has mentioned, yes, they are expensive, and if you're simply looking at day zero costs then it's going to be hard to justify. The real payoff will come down the track when you swap some bigger drives in.
Mind you, over here at least it seems that while a two-bay NAS isn't too badly priced, as soon as you go to four the gap to a Drobo really closes. Might also factor into your decision.
In terms of are they worth it... as another commenter has mentioned, yes, they are expensive, and if you're simply looking at day zero costs then it's going to be hard to justify. The real payoff will come down the track when you swap some bigger drives in.
Mind you, over here at least it seems that while a two-bay NAS isn't too badly priced, as soon as you go to four the gap to a Drobo really closes. Might also factor into your decision.
I recently purchased a refurbished Dell Precision 390 workstation. These units come with a motherboard capable of hardware RAID 0/1/5/1+0 (nVidia chipset). I threw in a bunch of 750GB OEM hard drives I had laying around for a RAID 5 array, and haven't looked back since. All-in-all I have around $500 in the machine ($250 for the tower, $250 for 3 750 GB drives).
I can still use the PC as a workstation, while allowing it to serve up files to the rest of my SOHO network (simple Windows Workgroup network). It works fantastic. If you aren't willing to build a completely custom PC, the method I used will save you some money AND give you the extra flexibility of being a Windows work station. Against the cost/feature-set of the Drobo, this was a no-brainer for me.
I can still use the PC as a workstation, while allowing it to serve up files to the rest of my SOHO network (simple Windows Workgroup network). It works fantastic. If you aren't willing to build a completely custom PC, the method I used will save you some money AND give you the extra flexibility of being a Windows work station. Against the cost/feature-set of the Drobo, this was a no-brainer for me.
First thing...it’s important to pick your strategy well. Once you load up 2-3-4 terabytes of data, it’s not easy or inexpensive to migrate to another option.
I'll share my experience with freenas , Netgears Readynas Pro Pioneer and Onboard Raid. My perspective is to give you the gotcha's and let the marketing people give you the spin.
FreeNas
Tested on an older Pentium 4-350. Fantastic piece of free software, but takes a little getting used to as not much instructions included - but you can manage. Services setup easily. Looking to get ZFS to work because of the volume expansion abilities. The issue with using an older box is they are cheap/free. But rebuilding is slow (days/weeks on large volumes) and performance is severely degraded while rebuilding. This is not because of FreeNas, but the hardware. This is my issue with Drobo...its too slow when actually needed. Gave up testing in lieu of the ReadyNas for performance. In hindsight, I should have tested with faster hardware. The Freenas software/OS is all you will need and can boot off of a usb if needed.
Netgears Readynas.
Great box for performance- terrible company to work with, and with a 5 year warranty, you are tied to them. They shipped a box with a known defect and insisted that I pay shipping to return it (not cheap), as well as for the replacement. But here is the killer part, they would replace this brand new box with a refurbished unit. If this is the love before the marriage, can you imagine really having a warranty problem?? More here if interested (www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=34...). The addon services (which I thought were a great bonus) are not so great. One example, the bittorrent clients lack a lot of functionality that one might 'expect' to be standard/required. So make sure any addon services you wanted can actually do what you need before purchasing.
Onboard Raid (Motherboard)
After returning the Readynas, I had to do something with these four (4) 1 terabyte drives, so I put then in my Media Center and used the onboard Intel Matrix (Raid) Manager. This was unbelievable simple. Plug in the drives, add them to the array in the bios, initialize the drive in Windows (format). Instant 2.7TB of redundant storage (3.7TB total). Best part, it’s free. As to issues…(This is my setup, you can avoid most of what I encountered) Well, running a file server on a machine with other software mean any crashes will take your service offline. For example, Media Center (for some reason all of a sudden) crashes whenever you go into the guide. On Reboot, the Intel matrix service informs that I have lost redundancy and the raid is being rebuilt -automatically. The 3.7TB takes 20 hour on a 2.4Ghz dual Core, to resort redundancy. All files are available but performance of writes to the drive drops to ~7Mbps from ~70Mbps, reads are unaffected. My controller will support 6 ports, so adding drives (storage) should be possible, however, depending on the Intel chip (Southbridge) you have, raid expansion may or may not be supported. This is important because I may be stuck at 3.7TB as my Intel ICH10R officially does not support expansion. It may unofficially if I read this correctly:
(communities.intel.com/thread/4181;jsessionid=04304...)
Drobo S
I don’t have one…but I cannot find any performance reviews. Although the company reports that its faster (20-25%), I’d like to see someone without a financial interest say that. So it’s of a little concern that Data Robotics has NOT provided ‘samples’ to relevant test sites to review. Given that these units are ~$900 vs onboard Raid which is free/included with your motherboard, I cannot see handing over a known quantity ($900) for an unknown quantity of performance.
Conclusion
I’m extremely happy with the performance and price of the onboard raid solution given that SSD’s are/will be replacing mechanical drives – and have much longer mean time before failure. Yes, I know capacity isn’t there yet – my point is simply that expending excessive funds on a twilight solution may not be wise. My thoughts are the Drobo S may be better priced at $450 and go for volume / penetration in the market. Remember the ZIP drive (100MB) while everyone was stuck at 1.44MB floppy….my point exactly (it was too expensive for the market and just didn’t sell that well as a result).
If anything, my testing has left me with one important conclusion. When you buy a redundant storage solution, you should really be thinking about how it performs during the anticipated crisis. If it takes five ( 5) days to make a backup….that’s a lot of time for a power interruption or other disaster to happen. So performance at the task at hand should be the criteria. Just my thoughts.
I'll share my experience with freenas , Netgears Readynas Pro Pioneer and Onboard Raid. My perspective is to give you the gotcha's and let the marketing people give you the spin.
FreeNas
Tested on an older Pentium 4-350. Fantastic piece of free software, but takes a little getting used to as not much instructions included - but you can manage. Services setup easily. Looking to get ZFS to work because of the volume expansion abilities. The issue with using an older box is they are cheap/free. But rebuilding is slow (days/weeks on large volumes) and performance is severely degraded while rebuilding. This is not because of FreeNas, but the hardware. This is my issue with Drobo...its too slow when actually needed. Gave up testing in lieu of the ReadyNas for performance. In hindsight, I should have tested with faster hardware. The Freenas software/OS is all you will need and can boot off of a usb if needed.
Netgears Readynas.
Great box for performance- terrible company to work with, and with a 5 year warranty, you are tied to them. They shipped a box with a known defect and insisted that I pay shipping to return it (not cheap), as well as for the replacement. But here is the killer part, they would replace this brand new box with a refurbished unit. If this is the love before the marriage, can you imagine really having a warranty problem?? More here if interested (www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=34...). The addon services (which I thought were a great bonus) are not so great. One example, the bittorrent clients lack a lot of functionality that one might 'expect' to be standard/required. So make sure any addon services you wanted can actually do what you need before purchasing.
Onboard Raid (Motherboard)
After returning the Readynas, I had to do something with these four (4) 1 terabyte drives, so I put then in my Media Center and used the onboard Intel Matrix (Raid) Manager. This was unbelievable simple. Plug in the drives, add them to the array in the bios, initialize the drive in Windows (format). Instant 2.7TB of redundant storage (3.7TB total). Best part, it’s free. As to issues…(This is my setup, you can avoid most of what I encountered) Well, running a file server on a machine with other software mean any crashes will take your service offline. For example, Media Center (for some reason all of a sudden) crashes whenever you go into the guide. On Reboot, the Intel matrix service informs that I have lost redundancy and the raid is being rebuilt -automatically. The 3.7TB takes 20 hour on a 2.4Ghz dual Core, to resort redundancy. All files are available but performance of writes to the drive drops to ~7Mbps from ~70Mbps, reads are unaffected. My controller will support 6 ports, so adding drives (storage) should be possible, however, depending on the Intel chip (Southbridge) you have, raid expansion may or may not be supported. This is important because I may be stuck at 3.7TB as my Intel ICH10R officially does not support expansion. It may unofficially if I read this correctly:
(communities.intel.com/thread/4181;jsessionid=04304...)
Drobo S
I don’t have one…but I cannot find any performance reviews. Although the company reports that its faster (20-25%), I’d like to see someone without a financial interest say that. So it’s of a little concern that Data Robotics has NOT provided ‘samples’ to relevant test sites to review. Given that these units are ~$900 vs onboard Raid which is free/included with your motherboard, I cannot see handing over a known quantity ($900) for an unknown quantity of performance.
Conclusion
I’m extremely happy with the performance and price of the onboard raid solution given that SSD’s are/will be replacing mechanical drives – and have much longer mean time before failure. Yes, I know capacity isn’t there yet – my point is simply that expending excessive funds on a twilight solution may not be wise. My thoughts are the Drobo S may be better priced at $450 and go for volume / penetration in the market. Remember the ZIP drive (100MB) while everyone was stuck at 1.44MB floppy….my point exactly (it was too expensive for the market and just didn’t sell that well as a result).
If anything, my testing has left me with one important conclusion. When you buy a redundant storage solution, you should really be thinking about how it performs during the anticipated crisis. If it takes five ( 5) days to make a backup….that’s a lot of time for a power interruption or other disaster to happen. So performance at the task at hand should be the criteria. Just my thoughts.
I think the best way round any streaming issues is to connect the Drobo S to a FIrewire 800 port, which in turn will give amble bandwidth for HD media. General view has suggested that to stream HD content you would need a bandwidth of 50-60 a second. Maybe ESATA will cope with this requirement but not USB 2.0.
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